Posted on 01/14/2006 7:34:00 AM PST by Candor7
Ping
Thanks for the reference. I love ancient history. To me, it proves that this "civilization" we are a part of, was not the first, or the finest, in our Earth's history.
His exploration didn't continue after the emperor died. China turned inward after northern threats (basically since Mongolian invasion, China had been turning inward until the 1980's and now). His ships, etc. were scuttled and broken down. There are still remnants of his ships in China in museums (and elsewhere). His exploration of Southeast Asia and India is documented by the local history aswell, so it's not a fluke. Whether he reached the Americas is subject to debate, but there has been books published that claimed he, indeed, had discovered Americas (by a British historian, no less).
That was teh first Chinese naval buildup. The second is happening as we speak.
to be precise, there was no Archaeopteryx fossil forgery, the forgery was of a supposedly different, previously unknown specie - Archaeoraptor. And it was another Chinese paleantologist who discovered and made public the forgery. ... So when you say "THEY" that's painting it with a pretty broad brush, after all, there are forgeries of all kinds being done all over the world.
Yeah, this map has too many holes in it ...
Yes your right but I don't think that exploration is thier goal this time.
Be damned difficult to sail around the world and NOT discover America. I believe that inconvenient fact had something to do with the Panama Canal.
Well, if he did "copy" it from an earlier map....it doesn't exclude that he also incorporated other maps into it. Look at Google Earth today. It is merely a "copy" and overlay of multiple map sources.
The fact that he is muslim is of no consequence to me. The fact that Mosques in this country and Mexico are educating their new members with their own version of historical events does have some impact. They are making the claim that western civilizations have actively tried to deny the positive impact that Islam has had on western europe in an effort to keep them from the truth. That seems a little strange. The fact that Muslim leaders support a new caliphate that will unite all the Muslims of the world into one new nation doesn't sound like something that I want to be a part of. The fact that they believe that empire should be restored in western europe could be a warning sign of things to come. It just seems like an attempt to lay the ground work for a rightful claim to the americas at some point in the future. on their web sites they will tell you that they believe that all people are born as muslims and are lead astray by uninformed parents or society in general. New members are called reverts to symbolize that you are returning to your muslim roots instead of converting to something new. As far as the history present on Zheng He that I have seen, the date of the map doesn't leave enough time for him to have travelled that great a distance and still have completed those other journeys which, like you said are well documented. It doesn't mean it didn't happen, but the map itself doesn't prove that it did either.
Hey JAck, what about the encoder rings?
I understand that, and indeed, that's always been the practice for mapmakers. But in the early fifteenth century, I don't think anybody had explored northern Russia, forged through the impenetrable ice of the Northwest Passage, or investigated all the rivers of North and South America and Africa, and left maps behind to show their work. In other words, not even a synthesis of existing maps of the time would have displayed anywhere near this much information.
sorry about the mistake...i was going off of memory there. because another chinese paleantologist made the forgery public doesn't answer the question of why they would do that. I have heard that the farmers there figured out that paleontologists would pay big money for the fossiles and a market of sorts developed, but why was it done in the first place?
It's my understanding that he had a massive fleet, almost a city. He may have made landfall, established a 'camp site' and sent other ships out in many different directions at the same time. (?)
I find a lot of interesting possibilities in Heyerdahl's theories.
It's possible. They had much better, bigger, and earlier ships than the Europeans till they stopped by order of the emperor.
Also to add to the list of acient explorers Hanno of Carthage probably went near the bottom of Africa and possibly ran into South Amrica.
On the other hand, I don't think this is a Chinese forgery. If it were, they'd be 10 for a Dollar and on sale at every checkout counter of WalMart. :-)
Excellent point! You're right!
All of this is NONSENSE. The first people to discover America were the ancestors of the Native Americans, at least 12,000 years ago, and according to some experts, as early as 30,000 years ago. There is no doubt they were the first.
It is racist to suggest that Chinese, or Vikings, or Egyptians were the first "people" or to come to America. Some Native cultures, such as the Maya, were quite advanced 2000 years ago.
Maybe the Maya or some other Native civilization discovered Europe or China.
Except, of course, nearly every educated Western person since antiquity, including Christopher Columbus?
The oldest Mongoloid skeleton ever found anywhere is only 10,000 years old, RE: Professor Stephen Oppenheimer. Also, the oldest skeletons found in the Americas are like those of the Ainu (Caucasian like, not Caucasian). There is one, Luzia, 10,500 years old that is (looks like) African.
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