Presidents all the same when scandal strikes (Bob Barr turncoat alert)

Atlanta Journal Constitution ^ | December 28, 2005 | Bob Barr

[balch3]

Two of the most powerful moments of political déjà vu I have ever experienced took place recently in the context of the Bush administration's defense of presidentially ordered electronic spying on American citizens.

First, in the best tradition of former President Bill Clinton's classic, "it-all-depends-on-what-the-meaning-of-is-is" defense, President Bush responded to a question at a White House news conference about what now appears to be a clear violation of federal electronic monitoring laws by trying to argue that he had not ordered the National Security Agency to "monitor" phone and e-mail communications of American citizens without court order; he had merely ordered them to "detect" improper communications

[Howlin]

Did you read the article?

I did.

He says the monitoring appears to violate electronic surveilance law

He can say whatever he wants; he's dead wrong. He's too stupid to look up the actual facts:

Appeals panel rejects secret court's limits on terrorist wiretaps

From Terry Frieden

CNN
Tuesday, November 19, 2002 Posted: 1:24 AM EST (0624 GMT)


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The United States has broad authority to use wiretaps and other surveillance techniques to hunt for suspected terrorists, a federal appeals court panel ruled Monday.

In a 56-page opinion overturning a May decision by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, the three-judge panel said the expanded wiretap guidelines sought by Attorney General John Ashcroft under the new USA Patriot Act law do not violate the Constitution. (More on the USA Patriot Act)

The ruling by the special panel from the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia gives broad surveillance authority to counter-intelligence and counter-terrorism investigators to track individuals considered potential national security threats.

"Our case may well involve the most serious threat our country faces," the panel declared.

The reversal of May's decision by a federal judge represents a victory for the Justice Department and the FBI, which were harshly criticized by the lower court judge for its handling of wiretap applications, and their interpretation of the authority granted the government by the USA Patriot Act.


http://archives.cnn.com/2002/LAW/11/18/spy.court.ruling/

[jwalsh07]

Congress can not pass laws that abrogate the CIC's powers during peace time no less during a time of war. Neither can FISA courts abrogate those powers. At least the FIC court of appeals judges are smart enough to recognize that, Barr isn't.

His decalaration that Bush is illegall spying on thousands of Americans is, well, hyperbolic bs.

[RedRover]

Hillary would do as she damn well pleased regardless.

[KC Burke]

I guess that answers my rhetorical question at 39. He did both. He issued the EO to implement what was needed and fought a simultaneous court battle.

Appears to be plainly sensible. Why don't George Will and Bob Barr read your mail?

[Blessed]

>Both Bob Barr and Newt Gingrich, also from Cobb county, have a history of being more concerned about privacy than most other politicians... in general it's one of the reasons I like both of them.,

Bob has never been concerned with anything but himself.He started in politics by getting a conviction on money laundering against Congressman Pat Swindle by witholding evidence from the defense.He spent more time on Hannity $ Colmes than he did on the floor of Congress.He kept shopping congressional districts one to many times and got his clock cleaned by Linder.(and all he had to show for it was a bullet hole from mishandling a firearm.

[MNJohnnie]

Bob Barr is a moron alert. Sorry Bobby that you seem unable to come to grips with a post 9-11 world. Sit down and shut up you senile old stooge while better men fix the problem people like YOU helped create.

Terrorism is a different kind of war. We have to develop new ways and systems to fight it. All the comfortable old assumptions and pat slogans do NOT work. Sorry but this "make no change to anything ever" mindset being exposed by the senile wing of the Republican Party and the entire leadership of the Democrat party is the behavior of the Evolutionarily Challenged. Evolve or die you senile twits before you get MORE Americans killed with your rabid stupidity.

[MNJohnnie]

Bob Barr is a moron. I know the rabidly stupid do not understand reality but Americans do NOT have unlimited rights. WE, as a society have the RIGHT to impose limitations on their behavior. Civil Society is NOT the libertine wet dream the pseudos intellectual "Civil Libertarians" claim it is. We have a RIGHT to self defense. Sorry twits but the rights of Citizenship do NOT apply to people plotting to kill Americans in job lots. Since the JUDICARY, THE EXECUTIVE and the Legislative ALL reject your emotionally hysteric opinion on this matter, you assumptions about "Due process and the Constitution" are just the deluded ravings of a politically bigoted loser. We are a Constitutional Republic NOT a minority based dictatorship. Win an election and we will listen to you until then your petty OPINIONS on Constitutionality are just so much hot air. Sorry but the case law and the FACTS do NOT support your arrogantly uninformed OPINIONS here.

[MNJohnnie]

Rabidly stupid woefully uninformed opinion by Barr. Sorry but neither the case law NOR the law support this wholly ignorant opinion expressed by Barr. Gee guess REALITY and the LAW doesn't matter to the arrogantly uniformed Civil Libertines does it?

[MNJohnnie]

It would appear the rabidly stupid party seems to confuse their emotion based opinions that they have a "Right" to do anything they want with the Consitution and the Law. Since neither the law nor the case history NOR the people of this country support the emotionally hysteric opinions of the Liberine Party, you guys LOSE again. Sorry but we are NOT a nation governed by the emotional whimsy of a whiny minority. Actually WIN an elect them maybe your opinions will matter, until they all this hyperventaliting is just so much hot air from the politically irrelevent

[manwiththehands]

"...We want to keep it as far right as possible while providing a minimum of ammunition to those on the left."

Huh? What's wrong with the Left/Lib/'Rats having ammunition? Our "Republican" "leaders" seem to care more what the Left thinks, anyway.

If Nancy Pelosi lurks these pages and repeats to the House something said here maybe our party might listen for a change.

[alnick]

I don't know what's gotten into Bob Barr.

He's aligned himself with the ACLU.

[sandan]

Sorry, but Bob Barr is right, as usual. Apparently, many here think the President has unlimited powers.

1. You believe that he can at his sole discretion and without judicial review declare any US citizen an enemy combatant and hold him indefinitely without counsel and access to courts.

2. You believe he can at his sole discretion and without judicial review listen in on any phone conversation or email of any US citizen.

3. You believe that he can employ torture on anyone he pleases.

And all of this can be done in the absence of a formally declared war.

That is not the description of an elected president of a constitutional republic, that is the description of a dictator. I think Benjamin Franklin said it best:

"They who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

[alnick]

Sorry, but Bob Barr is right, as usual. Apparently, many here think the President has unlimited powers.

Certainly not unlimited, but he does have not only the right, but the responsibility to spy on Al Qaeda.

[WhiteGuy]

I see you're quite big on jumping to conclusions and making assumptions.

While I respect many of the positions of the Libertarians, I am not a member of their party.

As for the rest of your rant, I doubt that it's even original thought, just more recycled BS from the sycophants of the state.

That's ok though, even those who cannot think for themselves are allowed to bray all they wish, this is America and we have rights, at least for now.

Don't bother replying, I'll just read what you write to someone else, it'll be the same words.

[MNJohnnie]

Gee I am sorry you seem so desperately unable to evolve beyond your 9-10-01 mindset.

[WhiteGuy]

HAH!!!! LOL

The cliche of all cliche's for a come back!

You're a funny guy.

[MNJohnnie]

Gee sorry but your emotionally hysteric opinions are validated neither by Law nor Case History. Glad you have feelings too bad you continually confuse them for facts.

[penowa]

Apparently, many here think the President has unlimited powers.

No, we do not think the President has unlimited powers, but we also know that the congress cannot usurp his constitutional powers by passing laws that aim to do so.