"You mean that Protestant tolerance?? "
LOL.....yeah, perhaps that was a little out of line. However, Our Catholic Brothers were hardly a shining example.
There were lots of "Bad" things - Virginia had an "official" religion, too. But by the time the Constitution was drafted and signed in 1789 religious zealotry of all kinds was suppressed, primarily by other Protestants, and we have the great country we have today.
The lesson that was learned is that state religion is bad. Tolerance for all relgions is good government policy.
That never would have been sanctioned by Rome - and history is replete with examples of that.
Dear RFEngineer,
An honest, non-tendentious history of the centuries after the Reformation will admit that there were both Catholics and Protestants (and Islamics and others) aplenty who tried to use the power of the state to coerce consciences.
"However, Our Catholic Brothers were hardly a shining example."
However, I don't recall anyone making the argument. Having been caught in a rather ludicrous argument, you're now deflecting. ;-)
"Virginia had an 'official' religion, too."
Yes, and interestingly, it WASN'T Catholicism, now was it?
And frankly, I don't find objectionable that the state of Virginia had an established religion, even though it wasn't Catholicism.
"But by the time the Constitution was drafted and signed in 1789 religious zealotry of all kinds was suppressed,..."
No, that's not at all true. It was illegal to say Catholic Mass in Virginia into the first part of 19th century. Apparently, the Protestants who ran Virginia took their sweet time "suppressing religious zealotry."
As I said, I don't oppose established religions. However, I DO oppose the coercion of conscience forced on us Catholics, not by favoring a particular Protestant sect in the state of Virginia, but by BANNING the Catholic Mass in Virginia (and Maryland - again, at the hands of Protestants).
In Maryland, the "supression of religious zealotry," and the provision of fundamental rights to freedom of conscience were actually promoted first and foremost by,... ahem..., Catholics.
"...primarily by other Protestants,..."
You mean like all the Protestants who passed Blaine Amendments to discriminate against Catholics in large swaths of the United States? A hundred years and more AFTER the adoption of the Constitution?
"That never would have been sanctioned by Rome - and history is replete with examples of that."
Well, not quite. Although the Catholic Church doesn't oppose established religions, the Catholic Church has ALWAYS taught doctrinally against the coercion of consciences.
Plenty of both Protestants and Catholics have violated that doctrine, but it's really much more of a mixed bag than you seem to think. Going back to Europe, there were countries with state-established Catholicism, as well as countries with state-established Protestantism, of different flavors and varieties. State-established Protestant religions flourised throughout northern Europe, and indeed, state-established Protestant religions still exist in Britain, Scandinavia, and other places.
In Great Britain, for centuries, far beyond mere state-establishment of Protestantism, it was illegal to say Catholic Mass. EVEN TO THIS DAY, the United Kingdom discriminates against Catholics. So much for "Protestant religious freedom."
And I hate to tell you, but historically, the Pilgrims weren't fleeing from CATHOLIC oppressors, but rather from PROTESTANT oppressors.
sitetest