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To: Physicist
No. I sincerely believe that all human thought is the result of the material workings of the physical brain. But to claim that such meaning is an intrinsic, inheritable property of the matter is as foolish as asserting that tomorrow's New York Times lies latent in a jar of ink.

I agree. But that is exactly the evolutionist's position.

There is matter and energy, and there is (as you seem to have forgotten) the pattern in which the matter and energy are arranged. I've seen no evidence that anything more is necessary to explain the human mind.

A specific pattern of matter and energy is still matter and energy. I don't see how that saves you from the fate of the materialist.

You seem to be saying that evolution may be responsible for the matter and energy but the matter and energy patterns are formed outside of Darwinian evolution through experience and thought. Even if I bought this argument, which I don't, it still doesn't address the illusion of purpose, which was my original question - How can an evolutionist be anything but a nihilist and maintain a consistent worldview?

(Of course, the correct answer is "Why should a nihilist care about maintaining a consistent worldview?":)

[Ok, now I am done.]

195 posted on 12/12/2005 12:10:05 PM PST by Pete
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To: Pete
How can an evolutionist be anything but a nihilist and maintain a consistent worldview

If they are a christian, for example.

201 posted on 12/12/2005 12:17:39 PM PST by bobdsmith
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To: Pete
But that is exactly the evolutionist's position.

Not at all, it's just your unaccountable misconception of the evolutionists position.

You seem to be saying that evolution may be responsible for the matter and energy but the matter and energy patterns are formed outside of Darwinian evolution through experience and thought.

That's hopelessly confused. There are matter and energy. There are also the patterns in which matter and energy are arranged (hence meaning, information). A SPECIFIC SUBSET of these patterns arise through Darwinian evolution; the rest don't. Darwinian evolution certainly is NOT responsible for the existence of matter and energy.

How can an evolutionist be anything but a nihilist and maintain a consistent worldview?

I told you before that I have values, whether the universe does or not. "Evolution"--by which you mean materialism--refers to the universe's lack of values. Nihilism refers to a person's lack of values. Why should nihilism follow from materialism? Magnets prefer a north-south orientation, even though the magnetic force itself is rotationally symmetric.

(Of course, the correct answer is "Why should a nihilist care about maintaining a consistent worldview?":)

Well, that's not really an answer, but I can't resist the observation that very few theists I've met have a consistent worldview.

239 posted on 12/12/2005 1:07:11 PM PST by Physicist
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To: Pete
How can an evolutionist be anything but a nihilist and maintain a consistent worldview?

If my genes have inclined me to develop with a feeling that it's right to protect my family or wrong to kill someone, then how can I discount those feelings in order to become a nihilist without somehow 'ripping out' those genes and every effect they've had on me?

Or, to put it another away, knowing that my sex drive is only an adaptation produced by natural selection doesn't make me want to stop having sex, so why should knowing that my moral 'drive' is (at least partially) derived from the same source make me want to stop being moral?

524 posted on 12/13/2005 7:58:49 AM PST by moatilliatta
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