Posted on 12/09/2005 12:28:29 PM PST by MRMEAN
..., it became increasingly apparent that the Maitland man killed by federal air marshals may have been fleeing in panic as he suffered the symptoms of bipolar disorder.
--SNIP--
A Miami-Dade police spokeswoman said Thursday that multiple witnesses reported that the 44-year-old was yelling that he had a bomb as he made his way down the aisle with a backpack slung across his chest. Later, the agency's chief of investigations insisted that Alpizar was yelling about a bomb but declined to say whether he was on the plane at the time.
Seven passengers interviewed by the Orlando Sentinel -- seated in both the front and rear of the main passenger cabin -- said Alpizar was silent as he ran past them on his way to the exit. One thought he had taken the wrong flight. Another thought he was going to throw up.
"I can tell you, he never said a thing in that airplane. He never called out he had a bomb," said Orlando architect Jorge A. Borrelli, who helped comfort Alpizar's wife after the gunfire. "He never said a word from the point he passed me at Row 9. . . . He did not say a word to anybody."
Two teens seated in Row 26 agreed. So did Jorge Figueroa, a power-plant operator from Lakeland seated a few rows behind first class.
"He wasn't saying anything; he was just running," Figueroa said. "I said to myself, 'It is probably a person who took the wrong plane.' "
What Alpizar's fellow passengers did hear were the desperate explanations from Buechner, Alpizar's wife, who at first seemed embarrassed by her husband's hasty exit. She started to follow him off the plane, saying, "He's sick. He needs to get off the plane," witnesses said.
(Excerpt) Read more at orlandosentinel.com ...
Dave Adams, a spokesman for the Federal Air Marshal Service, said Alpizar had run up and down the plane's aisle yelling, "I have a bomb in my bag."
If Alpizar actually been yelling "I have a bomb in my bag," while running up and down the aisle, wouldn't all the passengers have heard that?
From the CNN story, White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan told reporters at Thursday's briefing that
"the agents acted Wednesday to protect other passengers."
But Alpizar had already left the plane and was no risk to the other passengers. This is fact that to be ignored by most posters on other threads, most talk-radio hosts (all except Michael Savage), and callers, who have reacted to this shooting with glee, saying "Good Shoot!", "the system works," and wanting to give the shooters medals. Posters have said it was reasonable for the marshals to assume that Alpizar's getting up and running off the plane and his wife following him saying "He's sick" was all part of a terrorist plot...as if a real bomber would get OFF the plane with his bomb, or draw attention to himself, or have his wife follow and draw more attention.
Alpizar has no history of making threats. He was returning from volunteer missionary work. The only reports that he made a bomb threat comes from officials. The word "bomb" in connection with airports and airlines is "magic," it authorizes any official action, just as the statement, "I thought he had a gun," justifies a police shooting of an unarmed man. From the information available, I believe that Alpizar did not make a bomb threat.
It appears that Alpizar panicked ran off the plane, the air marshals decided to intervene and gave chase. They were in plain clothes, no doubt shouting their commands at him, and he may not, in his agitated state even understand that they were police; and he did not obey their commands. I believe that the marshals may have panicked themselves...and by saying that Alpizar threatened with a "bomb" they justify their actions...they may even believe it themselves now.
I expect that after interviewing all the passengers Federal officials will come up with a few who will agree they heard the word, "bomb." ("You did hear him say "bomb," didn't you...others did, you must have...you're not gonna say the air marshals were wrong, are you?") but so far no passenger interviewed by the media has confirmed the air marshal story (that Alpizar ran up and down the aisle yelling, "I have a bomb in my bag,")...if the air marshals were correct ALL the passengers would have heard it.
Alpizar was not a threat to the passengers when he was shot, his wife had already explained to the marshals that he was sick, and it appears that the air marshal's claim that Alpizar made a bomb threat is not true.
This was not a "Good Shoot."
I know I'm going to be flamed as an ACLU liberal for this; to you who do that: When did it become part of the philosophy of the Right to automatically justify the shooting of an unarmed citizen by Federal officials?
I agree with you 100 percent.
Uh, maybe he said he had a bomb when he was OFF the plane...
He was running from the police. The police had their guns drawn and were shouting for him to get on the ground. At that moment he began reaching into his bag. That's when the shots were fired.
When a police officer is shouting commands at you with his gun drawn, you do what he says. Period.
No doubt the ACLU and a thousand lawyers will be involved.
This story doesn't pivot around whether he did or did not say the "B-word".
One can easily pose a threat whether or not they say a specific word.
As long as the plane's passengers are safe. The hundreds of people in the terminal shouldn't matter.
I saw an interview with a dallas man last night and he said, he doesn't remember the exact phrase, but that he heard the man yell "I have a bomb."
Us? Flame you? Never! We're far too polite.
Sounds like more investigation is needed here. Alpizar must have been doing something to make the air marshal perceive him as a threat.
I don't think Mohammed Atta yelled that he had a bomb.... just wish that Air Marshal was on that plane.
How were the Marshals to know his history?
With more and more female bombers these days, it is reasonable to assume that her "explanations" might be ignored as they concentrated on the guy. Who can say that a female companion to a terrorist might not try a delaying ploy to give him time to detonate.
Hind sight makes geniuses of many of us, but when time is critical and a wrong decision will either result in the death of a possible innocent, but sick man, or if made the other way, might kill 100+ people, there is only one decision.
Until you can put yourself in the Marshals' position, you can't really make useful criticisms. This will be spun so bad that many folks will think we need to give up security all together and just take our chances of another 9-11. Of course, if it had gone the other way, it would be spun with howls of anger about not doing enough.
If I had to make the same choice, I would likely have done as they did. The difference between their accounts and the witnesses accounts can be way out because they were concentrating on a possible threat and the witnesses saw everything in passing instead of being engaged.
The biggest problem is that the MSM, and many Dims will do everything they can to fog over and hide the real truth unless they can definitively prove that the Marshal's were just blood-hungry, gun-toting, maniacs that felt the need to kill someone to prove their manhood. Then, if they get what they want and security goes down the tubes, they will get the other thing they want, which is another 9-11 that they can use to bash the Prez with.
PS: Tookey needs to be executed.
look at it this way - how many passengers are moving in the aisle towards the door, saying nothing, perhaps heading to exit the plane or perhaps heading for the bathroom or perhaps heading up front to stow some luggage in the closet, on planes everyday in the US? alot. how many are shot? NONE, until this incident.
that tells me this guy had to be doing something more then just silently walking down the aisle.
And I agree with neither of you.
The guy failed to obey the simple commands of a Federal Air Marshal on a loaded plane. It is tragic that he died because he also failed to properly medicate his mental disorder before boarding a plane full of other human beings, thereby posing a threat to everybody. The bottom line is that a jet aircraft is no place for people to be out of control.
I think that honestly, we don't have all of the info and it will be dribbed and drabbed out to us. Initially EVERYONE in the media said the guy said he had a bomb. So, assuming that was true, it seemed like a normal course of action that he was going to get shot if he did not immediately do as they said. Now, it seems a little less clear (I don't know yet what all witnesses said, and I don't trust the media not to color the news, but your mileage may vary).
Additionally, I'm not sure why it matters that they shot him when he was off the plane (I'm a little confused about where he was, was it the little tube thing that connects the plane to the terminal?) Anyway, another possible scenario, which may preclude anyone on the airplane from having heard him say anything about a bomb was the he didn't say it until he was off the plane. If he had had a bomb, would you suggest it was ok to let him detonate it there, since he was off the plane? Anyway, I don't know for sure how things played out and I haven't seen a really good step by step of what happened.
Lastly, you said:
I expect that after interviewing all the passengers Federal officials will come up with a few who will agree they heard the word, "bomb." ("You did hear him say "bomb," didn't you...others did, you must have...you're not gonna say the air marshals were wrong, are you?")
Thank you for that because it shows me where you're coming from. In other words, no matter who says what now, you have made up your mind. Frankly, I have not. We'll see.
susie
yes, but it has to be more then just "disobeying" to justify shooting him dead. "disobyeing" needs a context to it - if some person who claims to be an air marshall, comes over to me on a flight and orders me to stow my tray table and shoots me if I don't - there is a different context to "disobeying" that order, as opposed to if I were running down the aisle after making a bomb threat.
Not to mention that it was coming from Colombia...
Hel-LO???
Yeah, but this is starting to remind me about the whole WMD/Iraq thing...get people off on a small point, get them riled up about it, and then the truth won't matter much.
susie
That must not have made any internet news sites, because I have googled and found not a thing. If you see it online, will you please post it? (and ping me?)
susie
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