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Rock of offense: By blackballing Christian prayer, a federal judge creates a state religion
WORLD ^ | December 17, 2005 | Gene Edward Veith

Posted on 12/09/2005 12:26:51 PM PST by Caleb1411

A federal court has ruled that the Indiana House of Representatives may not open with any kind of prayer that mentions "Christ's name or title." This ruling is far more significant than banning the Ten Commandments in courthouses or taking "under God" out of the Pledge of Allegiance. What the Indiana decision does is to outlaw Christian prayer in the civic arena. And, if it stands, it will mean that no Christian clergyman or layperson can in good conscience pray at public events.

The word invocation does not just mean a prayer that opens a meeting. It means "calling upon" a deity. Virtually every prayer begins by calling upon the name of the person to whom the prayer is addressed.

Islamic prayers—as were also offered in the Indiana House and noted with approval in Judge David Hamilton's ruling—begin "In the name of Allah, the merciful." Is it legal to invoke Allah's name, and not that of Jesus Christ?

He Himself tells His followers that they are to make their requests to God in His name (John 14:13). So Christian prayers have historically concluded with some variation of "in Jesus' name we pray."

But surely just ending a prayer with that formula is not always necessary, some might say. Many prayers in the Bible, including the Lord's Prayer, do not end that way. Surely Christian clergymen given the honor of praying at a civic event can live with the ruling. Leaving Jesus out of their prayers is a way to avoid offense. After all, we can still address our prayers to Him, if not in words at least in our hearts.

But the Lord's Prayer too begins with an invocation that makes clear whom we are addressing: "Our Father, which art in heaven." Furthermore, it lifts up His name: "Hallowed be Thy name."

It is true that prayers do not have to end in a particular formula, but they still must be offered through Christ. Jesus tells us to pray "in faith" (Matthew 21:22). Only when we are in Christ may we dare come into the Father's presence. But through Christ, our intercessor and high priest, we have free access to the throne of grace (Hebrews 4:16). Also when we pray, the Holy Spirit intercedes for us when we do not know what to say (Romans 8:26).

The point is, Christian prayer is trinitarian but it is not generic. It may be possible to address the Trinity without mentioning any of the divine persons. But surely no Christian could accept the terms of the Indiana decision, that you can pray only if you do not invoke your God.

Let us assume that the court's concern for a strict separation of church and state is valid. Let us further assume the tenets of multiculturalism and the value of religious diversity. If I ask someone to pray for me, I can only expect that person to pray to the deity he believes in, using the forms of his religion. A Muslim will give an Islamic prayer. A Hindu will give a Hindu prayer. And a Christian will give a Christian prayer. Each person will pray according to his particular beliefs and the practices of his religion. The same must hold true when a legislature asks someone to pray.

In the Indiana ruling, a federal court dictates the content of a prayer, forbids the invocation of a particular deity, and mandates that prayers may only be directed to a universal divinity who reigns in an interfaith pantheon. That is not religious tolerance; it is religious intolerance. It does not promote religious diversity; it eliminates religious diversity. And when a federal court tells people who they can and cannot pray to and how they are allowed to pray, what we have is state-sponsored religion.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; US: Indiana
KEYWORDS: christians; voluntaryprayer
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1 posted on 12/09/2005 12:26:53 PM PST by Caleb1411
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To: Caleb1411

Islamic prayers—as were also offered in the Indiana House and noted with approval in Judge David Hamilton's ruling—begin "In the name of Allah, the merciful." Is it legal to invoke Allah's name, and not that of Jesus Christ?


2 posted on 12/09/2005 12:31:22 PM PST by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: BenLurkin

Sad.


3 posted on 12/09/2005 12:33:01 PM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Exalt the Lord our God, and worship at His footstool; He is holy. Ps 99:5)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

And un-Constitutional.


4 posted on 12/09/2005 12:35:38 PM PST by L98Fiero
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To: Caleb1411
This article is spot on. That is exactly what this atheist judge did - he established the State prayer and if you choose to pray otherwise, you are in violation of his established religion and in danger of punishment. This has to be overturned and/or Americans must disobey it and let the petty dictator come arrest them. If I were an elected leader there I would be walking around saying "Hi (Jesus) how (Jesus) are (Jesus) you (Jesus)."
5 posted on 12/09/2005 12:35:47 PM PST by Galveston Grl (Getting angry and abandoning power to the Democrats is not a choice.)
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To: Caleb1411

The Indiana House of Representatives should tell the Federal Court to go to Hell and do what they want.


6 posted on 12/09/2005 12:37:02 PM PST by microgood
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To: microgood
"The Indiana House of Representatives should tell the Federal Court to go to Hell and do what they want."

No need...sounds like the Fed is well on it's way...
7 posted on 12/09/2005 12:40:57 PM PST by yer gonna put yer eye out (sayyy....this Al Qaida thing looks serious....)
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To: microgood

Is the Indiana House controlled by a Republican majority? It would take a backbone to defy the judge's ruling and I'm not sure Republicans are up to it these days.


8 posted on 12/09/2005 12:44:16 PM PST by Russ
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To: Caleb1411

The proper response to this is to ignore the judge and do it anyway. What's the federal judge going to do about it?

Let an elected official lead the prayer and let him tell the judge that he is exercising his first ammendment rights.

Have him tell the judge that he is answerable for what he says to the people who elected him, and if they are unhappy with him expressing his personal faith while in office they can choose to not reelect him.


9 posted on 12/09/2005 12:45:16 PM PST by untrained skeptic
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To: Caleb1411

any kind of prayer that mentions "Christ's name or title."

Very specific language.


10 posted on 12/09/2005 12:48:23 PM PST by PeterPrinciple (Seeking the truth here folks.)
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To: Russ
It would take a backbone to defy the judge's ruling and I'm not sure Republicans are up to it these days.

Good point, unfortunately.
11 posted on 12/09/2005 12:48:38 PM PST by microgood
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To: BenLurkin
Is it legal to invoke Allah's name, and not that of Jesus Christ?

Probably (in my non-expert opinion).
Seeing how all the Democrats and ACLU Jihad is built on the
Jeffersonian "separation of church and state".
And Jefferson never said anything about "separation of mosque and state".

Amazing how picky liberals are when doing an exegesis of their scriptures.
12 posted on 12/09/2005 12:51:46 PM PST by VOA
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To: Caleb1411
The Indiana State Constitution, in Article 4, Section 8 says of its legislators:

"They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.

Seems to me that the courts of Indiana can't do a damn thing if one of the legislators themselves offered a prayer on the floor of the legislature. Even if they find it a violation of their constitution, the Indiana Executive branch is powerless to prevent it.

13 posted on 12/09/2005 1:02:23 PM PST by RonF
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To: BenLurkin

"In the name of Allah, the merciful."

Sorry, but isn't that their GOD?


14 posted on 12/09/2005 1:14:22 PM PST by wolfcreek
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To: Caleb1411
"A federal court has ruled that the Indiana House of Representatives may not open with any kind of prayer that mentions "Christ's name or title." "

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,"

Courts cannot make law by fiat which is wholly unconstitutional.
Who will arrest someone in this country for speaking the name of Christ?
That pig will be roasting on a pit before nightfall!

15 posted on 12/09/2005 1:16:44 PM PST by PaxMacian
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To: Russ

Yes, the Indiana House is controlled by Republicans. I don't know if the Republicans will defy the ruling, but it sounds like a Democrat might. Rep. Goodin, a Crothersville Democrat, has said that he wanted to deliver the first prayer when the House opens next month. He was quoted as saying

"A judge is not going to tell me what I can or cannot say to express my belief in Christ."


16 posted on 12/09/2005 1:24:36 PM PST by americangirl1031 (One man with courage makes a majority. --Andrew Jackson)
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To: Caleb1411
"And blessed is he who does not take offense at Me."
- Matthew 11:6, Luke 7:23
But Peter said to Him, "Even though all may fall away, yet I will not."
- Mark 14:29

17 posted on 12/09/2005 1:40:33 PM PST by Sopater (Creatio Ex Nihilo)
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To: Caleb1411
Where is the oucry that there should be of the christians in this country. Over the years we have been asleep. How can a christian nation have 40 million deaths from abortion and not rise up in great numbers. There are too many of those who say they are christian and go along with gay marriage, abortion. Conversion should be first with the christians. John the Baptists lost his head preaching to repent of sin. And Jesus said there was no one greater than John the Baptist. We need more preaching on sin and repentance.The battle has been won by christ but the war against him is still very much on.
18 posted on 12/09/2005 2:06:23 PM PST by red irish (Gods Children in the womb are to be loved too!)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

DITTO.


19 posted on 12/09/2005 2:23:02 PM PST by Cindy
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To: L98Fiero

DITTO.


20 posted on 12/09/2005 2:23:52 PM PST by Cindy
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