Who said it had to be long? LEOs are exempt from the restrictions on short-barreled shotguns.
Posted on 12/08/2005 12:21:37 PM PST by Rennes Templar
A passenger on Flight 924 gives his account of the shooting and says Rigoberto Alpizar never claimed to have a bomb
By SIOBHAN MORRISSEY/MIAMI
At least one passenger aboard American Airlines Flight 924 maintains the federal air marshals were a little too quick on the draw when they shot and killed Rigoberto Alpizar as he frantically attempted to run off the airplane shortly before take-off.
"I don't think they needed to use deadly force with the guy," says John McAlhany, a 44-year-old construction worker from Sebastian, Fla. "He was getting off the plane." McAlhany also maintains that Alpizar never mentioned having a bomb.
"I never heard the word 'bomb' on the plane," McAlhany told TIME in a telephone interview. "I never heard the word bomb until the FBI asked me did you hear the word bomb. That is ridiculous." Even the authorities didn't come out and say bomb, McAlhany says. "They asked, 'Did you hear anything about the b-word?'" he says. "That's what they called it."
When the incident began McAlhany was in seat 24C, in the middle of the plane. "[Alpizar] was in the back," McAlhany says, "a few seats from the back bathroom. He sat down." Then, McAlhany says, "I heard an argument with his wife. He was saying 'I have to get off the plane.' She said, 'Calm down.'"
Alpizar took off running down the aisle, with his wife close behind him. "She was running behind him saying, 'He's sick. He's sick. He's ill. He's got a disorder," McAlhany recalls. "I don't know if she said bipolar disorder [as one witness has alleged]. She was trying to explain to the marshals that he was ill. He just wanted to get off the plane."
McAlhany described Alpizar as carrying a big backpack and wearing a fanny pack in front. He says it would have been impossible for Alpizar to lie flat on the floor of the plane, as marshals ordered him to do, with the fanny pack on. "You can't get on the ground with a fanny pack," he says. "You have to move it to the side."
By the time Alpizar made it to the front of the airplane, the crew had ordered the rest of the passengers to get down between the seats. "I didn't see him get shot," he says. "They kept telling me to get down. I heard about five shots."
McAlhany says he tried to see what was happening just in case he needed to take evasive action. "I wanted to make sure if anything was coming toward me and they were killing passengers I would have a chance to break somebody's neck," he says. "I was looking through the seats because I wanted to see what was coming.
"I was on the phone with my brother. Somebody came down the aisle and put a shotgun to the back of my head and said put your hands on the seat in front of you. I got my cell phone karate chopped out of my hand. Then I realized it was an official."
In the ensuing events, many of the passengers began crying in fear, he recalls. "They were pointing the guns directly at us instead of pointing them to the ground," he says "One little girl was crying. There was a lady crying all the way to the hotel."
McAlhany said he saw Alpizar before the flight and is absolutely stunned by what unfolded on the airplane. He says he saw Alpizar eating a sandwich in the boarding area before getting on the plane. He looked normal at that time, McAlhany says. He thinks the whole thing was a mistake: "I don't believe he should be dead right now."
Me too. From the current information, they were put in a tough spot and they had to do what they had to do.
They can be wrong on my plane any time they want when a guy starts screaming I have a bomb.
Right.
I suppose, in a way, I AM second-guessing, but in this case my guess is that they did exactly the right thing.
"The marshal messed up, plain and simple, his job is to shoot terrorists, Rigoberto Alpizar was not a terrorist. It was an understandable error, given the circumstances, but an error none the less."
It was not an error. Were they supposed to ask him if he was a real terrorist? Is that a bomb you are carrying, sir? The air marshall's job is to eleimanate all threats to the plane and passengers no matter if it is terrorism related or not. All possible threats must be eliminated, period. This guy established himself as a threat and the threat was eliminated. It is that simple.
I doubt any terrorist is saying, "Now that security has been relaxed, lets hijack another plane and fly it into a building." They now know for a fact that any unusual activity around a plane or airport will be met with deadly force. A boxcutter, knife, or gun will not be enough to take over a plane. We may have made that claim before but now we have proved it.
Listening to the democrats on the news say that this is the wrong war at the wrong time in the wrong place, and that our troops need to come home now, and that Bush lied to get us into war may lead people around the world to think that America isn't serious about fighting terrorism. Now, the whole world knows how serious the US is taking the war on terror.
I was impressed at how fast and thorough the air marshals were. I didn't expect that quick of a response. No standoff, no negotiating. It makes me wonder if the US is actually prepared to handle other threats just as well. We used to mock airport security for searching old people. Not anymore.
"Hey. One person didN't hear the word "bomb.""
"Let's run with that."
With all due respect, not a single passenger heard the word "bomb".
Just sayin'
Bones
Ruby Ridge, Waco, Elian Gonzales--it used to be an article of faith around Free Republic that armed responses by government agents are not always justified. And I respectfully submit that there is nothing "conservative" about cheering the death of this civilian before the facts are in.
It's possible that this eyewitness is wrong, or a jerk, or an attention seeker, but he's claiming that the dead guy never said the word "bomb," which directly contradicts what the government agents said.
For those out there who can think, that just might get you to do some thinking.
"You really believe that it's reasonable to expect a guy that was just in the jetway minutes ago and could have detonated it there to bypass that opportunity and act like a lunatic?"
If he was trying to hijack the plane, even with a real bomb, then yes, that type of behavior would be reasonable.
I also posted on another thread before I saw the big thread..
I have been reading more and more details about this story, and as more details come out I am starting to entertain the possiblity that the Air Marshals may have made an understandable, yet tragic mistake. I am withholding judgement until more of the truth comes out.
Apparently none of the passengers have corroborated his story that he had a bomb. They are all saying now that he was just saying he had to get off.. "have to get off" "have a bomb".. I can see how in the heat of the moment they might sound similar.
Also, apparently the Air Marshals already knew this man was on the plane and that he and his wife were having a tough time.
Also, he just did not have his medication, it's sounding like he knew he needed his medication and wanted it but it just wasn't available, possibly bieng in COlumbia may have something to do with that.
The mroe and more details that come out, the less of a "slam-dunk" situation I think it is as I thought yesterday.
I'm not knocking the Air Marshals, I'm glad we have them. I'm just not sure anymore if shooting him was the best way to handle it anymore.
Well, you should point out it's your opinion, instead of posting it like it's fact.
Doesn't he know that terrorists use cell phones to remotely detonate bombs?
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He doesn't care. The constitution (so he has been lead to believe), allows him to crap wherever he chooses. It must be great to be your own God. /sarc off.
It was reported last night that many other passengers heard him yelling he had a bomb. Your hero must have missed it while talking to his brother.
"It was reported last night that many other passengers heard him yelling he had a bomb. Your hero must have missed it while talking to his brother."
I have been watching this story since the hor it happened, no passenger, in any coverage I have ever seen, has stated that he said anything about a bomb. As a matter of fact the first reports of ANY word from the passengers I didn't see until today.
Who said it had to be long? LEOs are exempt from the restrictions on short-barreled shotguns.
Yep, I haven't seen a single report that any passengers heard "bomb" either.
But, people will cling to whatever story they want to believe. You still see people insisting that the Brazilian guy shot in London was wearing a "heavy coat" (now known to be false) on a "hot day"(that was provably false at the time).
Right. He'd have to be CRAZY and OFF HIS MEDS to do that.
I wonder how the press never found them but found "at least one passenger" that had a different story.
I didn't see him, but I have a picture in my head of a a guy whose never been anyone, and now, suddenly he can be a hero without really doing anything!
I have a picture of a guy cowering between the seats pissing himself when all of this was going down.
Once he's sure that everything is okay, he comes sauntering out bragging to everybody who will listen just how much ass he was going to kick.
What a jackass.
"I have a picture of a guy cowering between the seats pissing himself when all of this was going down.
Once he's sure that everything is okay, he comes sauntering out bragging to everybody who will listen just how much ass he was going to kick.
What a jackass."
You almost owe me a new keyboard for that. LMAO.
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