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Why punish the rich for good choices?
Minneapolis Star Tribune ^ | 12/3/05 | Gregg J. Cavanagh

Posted on 12/03/2005 12:28:17 PM PST by rhema

After reading the Socialist claptrap "Wondering if tax ride goes too easy on rich" (Nov. 20), I was left wondering if I should cancel my subscription to the Star Tribune. I decided to write a rejoinder instead.

Those in favor of soaking the rich cite "ability to pay" as if it were some immutable characteristic, like race or eye color. After all, if someone was lucky enough to be born with more "ability to pay," why shouldn't he or she share with the rest of us poor schlubs who were born without that attribute?

This attitude is fostered by the media's fixation upon the so-called "idle rich" -- those who acquired their wealth through the fortuity of birth. While I question society's claim on the assets of even those people, I can at least understand a philosophy that favors some redistribution of wealth to ameliorate the effects of truly random events.

But for most wealthy people (a class to which I do not belong), their "ability to pay" is the direct result of choices they made throughout their lives. They invested years in getting an education while others settled for entry-level jobs straight out of high school. They worked nights and weekends while others were enjoying happy hour or spending time on the golf course. They saved their earnings while others were buying new cars or big screen TVs or stereos. They invested their savings in start-up businesses or inventions or property or stocks. They steered clear of the temptations of alcohol, drugs, gambling and crime.

Could someone please articulate for me the moral principle that dictates that persons who study harder, work harder, relax less, save more, spend less and invest more should be compelled by government to give their earnings to persons who do precisely the opposite?

(Excerpt) Read more at startribune.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Philosophy; US: Minnesota
KEYWORDS: classwarfare; socialistclaptrap
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To: Mr. Buzzcut

I say the income tax ought to be the same percentage of everyone's gross income;we could try the biblical 20 percent.And if everyone gave the biblical 10 percent to their temple or church which would be responsible for the social programs,you would still have more for your own spending decisions than today!


61 posted on 12/03/2005 4:41:40 PM PST by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a creditcard?)
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To: Pukin Dog

You should wander into a science or engineering class at the local college, the classes are almost always 90% asian. Most of whose parents were decent off but instilled in their kids a work ethic that no amount of money can. These kids will make a good decent life worthy of the american dream. When i see all these welfare bums and people whining about the system i just roll my eyes.

I know a guy from my high school who got their as a sophmore(spoke no english)(he came from asia) and two years later graduated and went on to Berkeley and has just now graduated near the top of his class with a degree in electrical engineering. There are plenty of stories of people like that, but the liberals choose instead to focus on the bums who drop out of school and go through life with their hand out.


62 posted on 12/03/2005 4:51:52 PM PST by SDGOP
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To: Pukin Dog

Out of curiosity pukin dog, what part of san diego are you from(i'm a sd resident myself).


63 posted on 12/03/2005 4:52:15 PM PST by SDGOP
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To: Dawsonville_Doc
What you have described is comfortable self-satisfaction. Rich has that - followed by seven zeros.

So what do those seven zeros get you?

64 posted on 12/03/2005 5:04:36 PM PST by speekinout
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To: speekinout

Freedom.


65 posted on 12/03/2005 5:08:02 PM PST by Sundog (cheers)
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To: speekinout

A trophy wife


66 posted on 12/03/2005 5:09:39 PM PST by SDGOP
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To: Sundog
Freedom.

No, you don't get that from seven zeros. You get that because you live in a country with brave young men and women who value it.

67 posted on 12/03/2005 5:29:43 PM PST by speekinout
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To: SDGOP
A trophy wife

Oh, yes. A whole procession of them. Depending on how you write the pre-nups, you might get one every 5 years. If that's your cuppa tea.......

68 posted on 12/03/2005 5:34:08 PM PST by speekinout
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To: Dan Evans

Bill Gates didn't drop out of college. He was asked to leave Harvard because he was running big money poker games every night in his dorm room.


69 posted on 12/03/2005 5:40:44 PM PST by ladyjane
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To: SDGOP
Mira Mesa
70 posted on 12/03/2005 5:41:08 PM PST by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: adam_az
Congratulations on your early success. I am in a similar situation. I'm 28 years old, my wife is a stay at home mom with our two young children. By the end of the year, we will have no debts but our home.

On the other end of the equation, I've seen my house which we bought in March of '04 six times for a total of 4 weeks since August of 2004.

I've been able to bring my wife and children with me, but we spent a year and a half in a small apartment in the downtown part of a city 1000 miles from home. I just got transferred again last week and now we'll do it all over again for at least 3 more months.

I'll make over $100k this year. I've had more money taken out of my check than my hard working father earned this year.

My father dropped out of highschool and raised was a single parent of two toddlers at age 21. He has worked his ass off every day of his life and never took a dollar of public assistance. His attitude toward self reliance is one of the main reasons I'm a young conservative.

We never discuss our finances with our friends. They wouldn't understand the connection between the sacrifices we are making and the income that it produces.

71 posted on 12/03/2005 5:48:00 PM PST by Can i say that here?
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To: Pukin Dog
Anyone living paycheck to paycheck in America made STUPID decisions. That does not mean that they want to admit it.

Does that include the wheelchair-bound military vet with a arm and a leg he left behind in Fallujah who is living month-to-month off of a $2100-a-month VA disability check?

72 posted on 12/03/2005 6:05:59 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: FreedomCalls

If he never put any money away, damn straight. ANYONE can save money.


73 posted on 12/03/2005 6:18:59 PM PST by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: Can i say that here?

Get an accountant. If you own a home and have two children you should be paying very little taxes. A good accountant pays for themselves.


74 posted on 12/03/2005 6:21:32 PM PST by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: Pukin Dog

We have one. Only about $70k is taxed. The rest is per diem due to being away from home. This is the first full year at this income level, so I'll use this experience as my basis for how to handle the taxes over the coming years.


75 posted on 12/03/2005 6:27:12 PM PST by Can i say that here?
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To: Can i say that here?
What about your mortgage interest deduction?
76 posted on 12/03/2005 6:28:52 PM PST by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: speekinout; Dawsonville_Doc
So what do those seven zeros get you?

time to spare.
space to use.
resources to manipulate.

as well as:

insurance.
insulation.
power.
sex.

these last four, in moderation, are fine.
indeed, looking at history, these seem to be the fundamental driving motives of most significantly successful notables.
however, in excess, they tend to be the bane of the hyper-wealthy.

77 posted on 12/03/2005 6:36:34 PM PST by King Prout (many accuse me of being overly literal... this would not be a problem if many were not under-precise)
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To: Pukin Dog
Well, I'll have to see how all of that plays out. My business expenses are only about 1/3rd of the per diem amount, so last year I didn't have any qualified business expenses. I'm a w-2 employee, so the mortgage deduction would probably be the only itemized deduction I would have. I imagine our standard deductions would trump.

Like I said, this year will be a huge learning experience. In 2006 we plan to begin focusing on IRA's (no benefits through the job so we are on our own) and college savings. After that we'll be looking at paying the house off as soon as possible and trying to be totally debt free by the age of 32.

78 posted on 12/03/2005 6:39:10 PM PST by Can i say that here?
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To: speekinout

Lol, i forgot the /sarcasm tag. Trophy/Golddigging wives are the worst, they'll ditch you at the first sign of trouble for someone with more $$$


79 posted on 12/03/2005 6:50:45 PM PST by SDGOP
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To: Can i say that here?
After that we'll be looking at paying the house off as soon as possible and trying to be totally debt free by the age of 32.

NO!!!

Respectfully, that is stupid.

There is good debt and bad dept. Dept on appreciating assets is GOOD. Don't be in a hurry to pay off your house. Use the money from your home growing in value to finance other investments. If you pay off your home, you just lose a deduction, but still have to come up with yearly property taxes. Let the growing value of your home pay those taxes.

I am not suggesting that you use your home as an ATM machine, but you should be striving for the smallest monthly payment possible.

Get a better accountant.

80 posted on 12/03/2005 6:53:22 PM PST by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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