Posted on 12/02/2005 7:13:17 AM PST by billorites
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Limbo -- the place where the Catholic Church teaches that babies go if they die before being baptized -- may have its days numbered.
According to Italian media reports on Tuesday, an international theological commission will advise Pope Benedict to eliminate the teaching about limbo from the Catholic catechism.
The Catholic Church teaches that babies who die before they can be baptized go to limbo, whose name comes from the Latin for "border" or "edge," because they deserve neither heaven nor hell.
Last October, seven months before he died, Pope John Paul asked the commission to come up with "a more coherent and enlightened way" of describing the fate of such innocents.
It was then headed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who was elected Pope in April. It is now headed by his successor at the Vatican's doctrinal department, Archbishop William Levada, an American from San Francisco.
The commission, which has been meeting behind closed doors, may make its recommendation soon.
In his Divine Comedy, Dante passes limbo on his way into hell and writes: "Great grief seized on my own heart when this I heard, because some people of much worthiness I knew, who in limbo were suspended."
Thanks.
>The Word of God is not limited to the printed word. He operates through the Church and through other means to present Truth to us daily.<
Yes but these teachings can not be made up out of thin air with no scriptural basis or in contradiction to scripture.Ever Peter warned against accepting anyones teaching without checking it against scripture.
They aren't. But many fancy themselves superior to scholars and theologians and contemporaries of the Apostles.
I don't believe Jesus would start a Church if He meant each of us to rediscover, from scratch, all of the truths contained in the Bible and Divine Revelation.
SD
"John 3:3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God. "
Just a suggestion if you are so inclined, check out what that original word from the "Greek" 'anew', other translations use the word 'again', really is.
Sin isn't something we do -- it's something we ARE. That's why God has to supernaturally breathe life into us.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
>I don't believe Jesus would start a Church if He meant each of us to rediscover, from scratch, all of the truths contained in the Bible and Divine Revelation. <
The problem is to be Divine Revelation it must Not be changed by subsequent Divine Revelations.That is the problem the Mormons and the JW's have.
While I realize Catholics may say some of what the Pope says is Devine Revelation and infallible and some is just his opinion (Limbo)that is just splitting hairs.A prophet is not a prophet if he is not always speaking from Divine Inspiration.
How did the words "born of water and the spirit" become "water shall be poured over your head by a clergyman while a certain ceremony is performed"?
I know that Jesus sent them out on the great commission to "baptize," but this still doesn't answer the question of exactly what constitutes baptism (i.e. what actions are humans supposed to take).
His point is that the Word is Jesus first and foremost, not the book that talks about him.
Church doctrines on Limbo have always been vague and never definitively defined.
Baptism is required for salvation, and there can be no salvation except through the saving grace of Jesus Christ. Normally that grace is channeled through the Sacraments of the Church. But it has long been believed that Jesus has the power to save whom He will.
The ancient story of the Harrowing of Hell is not official either, but it suggests that Jesus went down to Hell between Good Friday and Easter and raised up Abraham, the Patriarchs, and the Prophets. Also usually Adam and Eve. It was long taught, as well, that grace could be extended to righteous gentiles who lived before the time of Jesus or had no means of knowing about them. Oddly, in the Divine Comedy Virgil is excluded from Heaven, but Cato is admitted.
Just as ancient pagans could be saved, the Church teaches that Protestants and others not in full communion with the Church can be saved, provided that they follow what they consider to be God's will. Moreover, most Protestant baptisms are considered valid by the Catholic Church, because they make use of the two essentials: water, and the words, "I baptize you [name] in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." (By way of illustration, I was baptized as an Episcopalian, and was conditionally baptized again when I became a Catholic, just in case, but there was no real doubt that the first, infant baptism was valid.)
The Church also teaches that there can be a "baptism of desire." Even though a sacramental baptism has not taken place, if there was an intention or desire for baptism that can suffice.
So, this would not be a reversal of prior teaching, but a development of ideas that have been around for a long time. I'm not sure what to think about it. I think we can leave it up to Pope Benedict to decide what, if anything, should be done. It is already accepted that some unbaptized babies go to heaven. Whether all of them do is probably unknowable, and might better be left to God, would be my present view.
First of all, I'm not sure if I buy that everything a prophet says has to be inspired. Secondly, the Pope is not a prophet.
He is protected from error in teaching the flock. This is a fra cry from saying everything he says is divinely inspired. It is not just "splitting hairs." Normal people do this type of thing all the time. The head of a corporation may have opinions or ideas that do not reflect the official position of the corporation.
It is possible to sometimes speak in one capacity and other times to speak in a different capacity.
SD
Well, you begin by taking the Great Commision and combining it with the above passage. It is one birth "of water and the spirit" that describes the actions during Baptism. The Spirit descends upon the baptisee during the sacrament. Just like the Spirit descended upon Jesus when He was baptised. It's not like we make this stuff up out of nothing.
That accomplished, the "ceremonial" aspects of the baptism arose from the nature of the event. Little goes on during an infant Baptism except the renouncing of Satan and the profession of the Faith. Then the child is baptised and annointed. A candle is lit from the Easter Candle, symbolising the flame of the Spirit now alive within the child. That's about it.
SD
When you die, you cease to exist. There is no problem to solve.
>He is protected from error in teaching the flock.<
If he is protected from speaking in error how did limbo show up to begin with?What happened to meatless Fridays?
>First of all, I'm not sure if I buy that everything a prophet says has to be inspired. Secondly, the Pope is not a prophet. <
Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
The pope is "God's Vicar on earth".Why would he not be held to the same standard as a prophet from the old testament who spoke for God?
It "showed up" as theological speculation, not as dogma. Aquinisfan explained this already.
What happened to meatless Fridays?
You think this is a dogma, something we believe in as an absolute truth?
Meatless Fridays were a religous practice, nothing more. They were replaced with a more personal selection of a penitential practice. A vegetarian refraining from meat is hardly making a sacrifice or good deed.
SD
The pope is "God's Vicar on earth".Why would he not be held to the same standard as a prophet from the old testament who spoke for God?
Again, the role of Pope is not the same as prophet.
And the title is Vicar of Christ. He is not here to give us new revelation, but to preserve and explain the Faith presented to the Apostles.
SD
It is my understanding that Limbo was never considered a foundational or Biblical teaching. It was put forward by Thomas Aquinas to explain a dilemma. It stuck, so now the Pope is having the matter revisited.
Thanks. I guess it's obvious I'm not Catholic. I would like to study Aquinas, though.
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