Posted on 12/01/2005 4:14:23 PM PST by goldstategop
130k miles????
I was led to believe that at 100k miles - guess what you need a new battery which don't come cheap at all. That to me is a huge disadvantage which seems to be underreported.
Unless it's economically feasible to put a new battery in when these things wear out you're basically looking at a big flower planter for the back yard - someone correct me if I'm wrong.
What? I thought the electric motor actually gave it some decent pickup? I mean, an electric motor makes a lot of torque at 0 RPM.
Publious has one and he seems to like it. The fact that they let them in the HOV lane is another benefit. Except for the ugly stickers they make you put on it.
It would be a stretch for you to prove your point bu t let's just leave it with 'It would not have enough power to get out of it's own way ...'
Since you took both sides of the argument, it would be difficult to prove you wrong.
Right as the old politician used to say "Some of my friends are fer it and some of them are agin it and as for me, I always vote with my friends".
But seriously, I'm saying that the thing becomes a boat anchor when the battery goes which I've heard is at 100k.
Actually, there is already a market for the "used" batteries. You will have to find another place to get your boat anchor.
I think you're right about that. Which shows that the true reason for the hybrid gear is simply to give it more power.
The technology allows the use of a smaller gasoline engine and better mileage and lower emissions. When gas prices were hitting $3.00 per gallon, hybrid owners were putting money in the bank. At $2 it is probably a tossup depending on the car and circumstances. Do you expect gas prices to stay below $2 a gallon for the next eight years? Eight years is the expected lifetime of the battery. Toyota has data showing the batter good exceeding 180k miles.
Take a Prius, remove all the hybrid gear, and it would likely get better fuel economy (thus less pollutants) overally.
Take a Prius, remove all the hybrid gear, and you have an Echo.
The other auto manufacturers are envious because they don't enjoy Toyota's reputation for quality. This in turn provides Toyota with built-in goodwill that enables them to effectively market cars to different segments, including liberal egos.
Capitalism 101.
In about 2 hours it will have 439,000 miles on it.
I won't buy this generation of hybrid, but the next will be attractive. I have read about an ultracapacitor capable of about the same energy density as NiCd - these capacitors are good for 100Ks of cycles and they will only get better with nanotech. If we can then eliminate mechanical connection of the engine to the wheels, we get a lot of flexibility in the fuel required by the power plant. Add a "plug-in" capability and most people will not use any gas on a typical day. For example, just based on the lights that we don't have on at night, we could dump the electrical equivalent of 2/3 gallon of gas into a hybrid. IOW even with no electrical infrastructure improvements, electricity can replace a substantial amount of oil consumption. With infrastructure improvements, we can do even better.
No doubt, and it took a lot of labor for him to work his way around that. I don't blame him though.
Earth First... we'll strip-mine Mars later this century.
Of course, the ultimate power answer is going to be nuc plants but given that most Americans graduate high school with a third-grade math and science education, it will be a hard sell. To a degree, energy is fungible.
There are now solar-powered (unmanned) aircraft that are being designed to stay up almost indefinitely and only come down for maintenance. But you can do that with a 200 lb. pilotless aircraft that flies above most of the troposphere, you can't do that with stuff that has to carry people around on the ground.
I like technology and so I find hybrids fascinating, much like I found the GM ev1 fascinating (and I would have bought one if they had sold them, but they didn't). As it is, I own three cars, and the best mileage comes from the pickup (doh) so you can imagine what my cars are like.
I don't need to fear being tailgated by a Prius when I'm in a hurry, that's for sure.
Toyota does make good cars. If they sold them here, I would buy the four-door diesel HiLux pickup that I used ovetseas. Several times, it bounced back from calamities that sidelined Unimogs or HMMWvs or other supposedly stout vehicles. Then when it did break, the village blacksmith could fix it. It ran on JP-8, kerosene, gasoline, and once, gasoline cut with vodka. It was the perfect machine for the third world, but they won't sell it here. Too utilitarian for us plush Yanks.
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
Someone should explain to liberals exactly WHAT goes into those batteries and where they are going to dispose of them.
Be far it from me to disagree with Rusbo, but the truth is that he is FLAT WRONG!! I've got a 2005 F-150 pickup sitting in my garage. If I don't get carried away I can get close to 20 but more often about 17-18 mpg. But I also had a 2003 Ford Escape that I bought new in 2003. I keep VERY CAREFUL fuel records and I think the highest I ever got was maybe 24 mpg. I just got a new 2006 Escape hybrid. 35.43 mpg on the first tank and 29.57 tonight with a full load traveling at highway speeds. Not only that, but it is more powerful than the V6 model. The gasoline engine doesn't kick in until about 25 mph and runs on electric power (has a 95 hp motor). Going downhill I've seen the rpms drop to 0 at speeds up to 35 mph.
I may not be a rocket scientist but I can add and subtract. I didn't buy this because I thought I was going to change the planet. I bought it because I liked driving it so much. And when driving in the city and stop and go, there is no noise (none, nada, zero) because the engine is not running. When I pull away it is on the electric power. The battery is warranteed for 8 years and 100,000 miles.
Yes, I paid more for it (than a regular model), but I wanted it. Not to save the planet but because I coveted it for the sheer pleasure of owning it. If I actually save money over the long haul, that will be a bonus but I won't be looking at the gas gauge going down like the 2003 I had. If I can't achieve at least 40 mpg, I'll be surprised. If I achieve 50 mpg, I won't be surprised.
Jenkins is full of it and Rush should keep to what he knows about. He once said on the air that there was this magic carburetor that could return 200 mpg but the oil companies bought up the design. That's a lot of bulloney. Most of what he says makes good sense but on this issue he is out to lunch. My $0.02.
When my '59 Cadillac was new, it got 15 mpg out its 390 cid engine. It's been a long time since it had a rebuild, but even so, with its MSD ignition add-on and the addition of a pint of tetraethyl lead to each 21-gallon fill-up with supreme, it gets 18 mpg combined city/freeway. Not bad for a 5,000-lb car. Rush doesn't know what he's missing.
That right there is a selling point to us audiophiles. Best I can do in mine is have real tight door/window seals and lots of sound deadener under the carpet. That's good enough, but having no engine/exhaust sound at all is even better.
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