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To: LibertarianInExile

Rather amazing that a self-labeled 'Libertarian' would be whining about tollways. Those are user-paid roads, instead of taxpayer-funded, so instead of taking money by force from every citizen to pay for them only those who CHOOSE to use them pay. The whole point of going to tollways is to get them built using minimal taxpayer-funding, the alternatives are to not build the roads(even though we have 4 of the fastest growing metro areas in the nation) or to raise taxes (the gas tax barely covers maintenance, and even if all that has been diverted to schools is put back into roads, it isn't enough to meet demand.)

If private medicine is better, if private schools are better, if private airlines, trains, and autos are better than the gov't alternatives, why do so many prefer gov't funded roads?


27 posted on 11/22/2005 9:01:35 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Diddle E. Squat
There are only a couple of ways to fund public schools.

One is to increase sales taxes. We already have one of the highest in the nation.

Another is an income tax, which has been anathema in Texas.

I can't think of any others,unless we return to local property taxes. That, of course, will mean that all those districts in south Texas will have inadequate schools, so the legislature will end up raising sales taxes to pay for those anyway.

32 posted on 11/22/2005 9:23:58 PM PST by sinkspur (Trust, but vilify.)
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To: Diddle E. Squat
why do so many prefer gov't funded roads?

Better access...I don't know where your road is.

36 posted on 11/22/2005 9:42:31 PM PST by lewislynn (Fairtax facts = lies, dreams, hope, wishful thinking and conjecture.)
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To: Diddle E. Squat

"Rather amazing that a self-labeled 'Libertarian' would be whining about tollways."

I have heard this same argument for Perry's grand government planning experiment. I have one simple rejoinder: WHAT DO TEXANS PAY 20 CENTS A GALLON OF GAS TAX FOR NOW?

Now, if toll roads were being put in solely on the basis of tolls, if there were no taxes funding road building already going to the state, or these gas taxes were removed, that would be one thing. But the roads in the state of Texas are already funded--the money is simply being spent elsewhere.

User fees are great. I am fine with pure toll roads. But I come from a state with lots of toll roads and a ridiculous gas tax that was supposed to be for building roads, Florida. That life experience means that I know well, once a toll road is put in, it never pays for itself--it pays for other projects and the money that is taxed from the people to pay for roads is spent on social programs and mass transit. Toll roads never stop being toll roads, the tolls are simply used for more government programs, just as gas taxes never go to build roads to the level they're supposed to.

Further, Perry's PR team notwithstanding, if Texans wanted toll roads, someone would have built them using private money to buy the land. Instead he's condemning a ton of farmland that private roadbuilders would love to buy cheap but can't or won't, and he'll simply GIVE it to the private roadbuilders for years, in exchange for them building a road on it that Texans will pay for! Sure, it is a visionary project. The problem is that it is also one predicated on his ability to plan better than the people of the state, and rape landowners through condemnation to achieve a private pass-through. And the people of Texas didn't vote a Republican in to plan for them, to manage their affairs for them, but to keep government small and STOP it from planning for them. And they sure didn't vote for Kelo II.

What Perry's plan is all about is avoiding using the money the way it should be, or cutting programs where it shouldn't be, and shifting more taxes onto the road users who have paid the state already to build and maintain roads it ain't building or maintaining.


45 posted on 11/22/2005 11:19:54 PM PST by LibertarianInExile (Cowards cut and run. Marines never do. Murtha can ESAD, that cowardly, no-longer-a-Marine, traitor.)
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To: Diddle E. Squat
why do so many prefer gov't funded roads?

Because we have likely already paid for the existing ones and I'm certain they won't stop taxing us anyways, should the roads go toll.

64 posted on 11/23/2005 5:28:53 AM PST by Bear_Slayer
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