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A million martyrs await the call (They want to die and we want to kill them.)
The Times (London) ^ | November 19, 2005 | Kevin Toolis

Posted on 11/19/2005 5:00:05 AM PST by FerdieMurphy

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To: enviros_kill
reminded me of the heroic battle of the Greeks against the Muslim hordes in 480BC at Thermopylae:

Muslims in 480 BC??????

Huh??? Islam was founded in the 7th century AFTER Christ

The Persians were a noble group of Rulers who were Zoroastrians (what you would call the fire-worshippers or Magi) who promoted a tolerance of religions and allowed the Jews to go back to their homelands and let them rebuild their temple.
101 posted on 11/20/2005 12:58:40 AM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia!)
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To: enviros_kill

I actually think it may have been better if the Persians HAD over-run the Greeks. The Romans would then have had an easier time in the Mediterranean and they could have tossed over a weakened Persian Empire. This would have resulted in a huge Roman Empire stretching from Britain to Baluchistan (or maybe even Burma), which could have swatted Mad Mohound's cult easily.


102 posted on 11/20/2005 1:00:43 AM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia!)
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To: King Prout

Obviously Muhammed was a fundamentalist breathing hell-fire, but there is good news in the Koran for some lucky ones:

Koran 5:82 says (Arberry): "Surely they that believe, and those of Jewry, and the Christians, and those Sabeaans, whoso believes in God and the Last Day, and works righteousness--their wage waits them with their Lord, and no fear shall be on them, neither shall they sorrow."


103 posted on 11/20/2005 5:09:55 AM PST by bkepley
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To: bkepley
The Nazis didn't do what they did for Jesus, they did it for the State and the Fuhrer. Just because Hitler may or may not have said that doesn't change that the teachings of Jesus ever came close to justifying Hitlers actions.

Its clear Hitler was into various religions and witchcraft's and so on. He may have used Christianity to further his cause among certain people, but the teachings of Jesus or his Apostles do not line up with that. If you want to prove to me that Christianity as Jesus walked it spoke of murdering Jews and proselytizing by force, please quote me the verses where this is taught. Don't quote some propaganda piece Hitler may have said.

104 posted on 11/20/2005 5:31:44 AM PST by normy (Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.)
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To: GladesGuru
Killing men is bad enough, but the destruction of the accumulated knowledge


See post 43


To me your statement lacks intelligence and sanity...


If you had a choice between losing your library or losing your family, what would you chose?

This is just a hypothetical question, don't post back to me, because to me the answer is obvious and not worth my time arguing with some pointy head about it.
105 posted on 11/20/2005 5:48:06 AM PST by dagoofyfoot
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To: normy

Too bad so many Christians (including many in this forum)don't practice what Jesus preached which is love and tolerance in my opinion. Christians in Europe have a long history of persecuting Jews and although I'm not that knowledgable about it I understand the Muslims in Bosnia-Herzegovina are fairly peaceful people while their Christian tormenters are less so.


106 posted on 11/20/2005 5:59:47 AM PST by bkepley
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To: TheClintons-STILLAnti-American
Islam is built on a FOUNDATION of murder and genocide. Muhammad, the "most perfect example" was a murdering, sexually promiscuous thief and power monger. That cannot be said of Christianity. Even under intense persecution by the Roman Empire during its inception, Christianity had a relatively peaceful history UNTIL Islam began its violent assaults, including taking over Jerusalem and building a mosque and declaring as one of their most "holy" sites the very spot where the Temple of Jesus' day had stood. Anything good about Islam is a facade. PERIOD. Satan is clever enough to know that unveiled evil wouldn't be nearly as successful in sucking anything close to the numbers of naive souls Islam has over the past 1400 years. So if you're waiting for Islam to "grow up", so to speak, as you imply, how long do you plan on giving it?? Your patience with the religion to mature apparently is greater than the patience many of its adherents have for realizing the lust for power Muhammad's lies tell is rightfully theirs according to their false "god".

Maybe you should email a copy of this hate-mail to President Hamid Karzai, I'm sure he'd appreciate your kind words.

107 posted on 11/20/2005 7:10:16 AM PST by bkepley
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To: bkepley

hrmn. weak. also: are you familiar with the doctrine of substitution?


108 posted on 11/20/2005 9:01:00 AM PST by King Prout (many accuse me of being overly literal... this would not be a problem if many were not under-precise)
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To: King Prout

are you familiar with the doctrine of substitution?

Not until just this minute, why?


109 posted on 11/20/2005 10:21:54 AM PST by bkepley
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To: bkepley

later suriya supplant earlier ones.

pre-Medina "revelations" were fairly tolerant towards "people of the book" as what amounts to a PR/merchandizing ploy

after the jews and christians in the region rejected Mohammed and he was forced to flee to Medina, the later "revelations" became distinctly intolerant of all non-muslims.

this kind of mod is justified by the doctrine that Allah can substitute a new-and-improved diktat for an older one. The validity of the older diktat is ERASED.

you will also kindly note: NOWHERE in the Koran is there any hint of tolerance, even in superceded verses, for "pagans" and unbelievers.


110 posted on 11/20/2005 10:29:26 AM PST by King Prout (many accuse me of being overly literal... this would not be a problem if many were not under-precise)
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To: normy

Excellent point. Agreed.


111 posted on 11/20/2005 10:31:11 AM PST by john drake (roman military maxim: "oderint dum metuant, i.e., let them hate, as long as they fear")
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To: King Prout
Islam is built on a FOUNDATION of murder and genocide. Muhammad, the "most perfect example" was a murdering, sexually promiscuous thief and power monger. That cannot be said of Christianity. Even under intense persecution by the Roman Empire during its inception, Christianity had a relatively peaceful history UNTIL Islam began its violent assaults, including taking over Jerusalem and building a mosque and declaring as one of their most "holy" sites the very spot where the Temple of Jesus' day had stood. Anything good about Islam is a facade. PERIOD. Satan is clever enough to know that unveiled evil wouldn't be nearly as successful in sucking anything close to the numbers of naive souls Islam has over the past 1400 years. So if you're waiting for Islam to "grow up", so to speak, as you imply, how long do you plan on giving it?? Your patience with the religion to mature apparently is greater than the patience many of its adherents have for realizing the lust for power Muhammad's lies tell is rightfully theirs according to their false "god".

Would this be your idea of "Christian tolerance"?

112 posted on 11/20/2005 10:37:46 AM PST by bkepley
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To: bkepley

nope.
I'd call that the voice of fear and disgust.
I would not call that fear and disgust unfounded.


113 posted on 11/20/2005 10:41:22 AM PST by King Prout (many accuse me of being overly literal... this would not be a problem if many were not under-precise)
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To: King Prout
I'd call that the voice of fear and disgust. I would not call that fear and disgust unfounded.

I agree with all of that but I would also add that much of that voice seems remarkably similar to the rantings of the fundamentalist Muslims. That's how it looks to someone outside both Islam and Christianity. In fact, I get pretty disgusted and fearful when I read some of the things Christians say here.

114 posted on 11/20/2005 10:47:57 AM PST by bkepley
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To: bkepley

Another one of Hitler's lying speeches in order to sway any sympathetic, weak Christians to his side. He hated Christianity because it's basis was Jesus, a Jew. Read Mein Kampf, it's all there. He put hundreds, if not thousands, of Catholic priests in his concentration camps. He was quoted that after the war (assuming it was won) he would seek to destroy the Church, the only other institution in his way. Hitler was not a practicing Christian, nor was his parents, according to any history I've read. Stick with ALL the facts, just not those chosen for your arguments.

And with regard to your comment that maybe Islam overtime will be somehow tamed; no, it cannot, it is based on lies and evil to begin with, therefore it's outcome can only be the same.


115 posted on 11/20/2005 10:48:04 AM PST by john drake (roman military maxim: "oderint dum metuant, i.e., let them hate, as long as they fear")
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To: bkepley

THIS is the heart of Christian "tolerance"

1. Love God with everything you are.
2. Love your neighbor as you love yourself.

corollaries:

a. your neighbor is he who does right by you - not necessarily your co-religionist
b. Christians are required to patiently endure the abuses of their fellow men (to a point: there is ample evidence that Jesus did not advocate total pacifism - "If you lack a sword, sell your shirt to buy one" etc...)
c. Christians are called upon to "witness" the "good news" of sacrifice and redemption of all Mankind
d. Christians are also called upon to leave in peace those who choose not to accept such witnessing
e. Christians are required to have faith that God Himself will sort out all the rest: No temporal holy war is needed or called for.

That many a Christian has fallen FAR from these basic principles has no bearing on the actual content of their holy writ.

In the same manner: That many a Muslim has NOT been a bloodthirsty jihadi maniac has NO BEARING on the actual content of THEIR holy writ.


116 posted on 11/20/2005 10:49:43 AM PST by King Prout (many accuse me of being overly literal... this would not be a problem if many were not under-precise)
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To: john drake

>Read Mein Kampf

Life's too short. I'd rather listen to hip-hop than read that garbage.


117 posted on 11/20/2005 10:50:02 AM PST by bkepley
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To: King Prout

>In the same manner: That many a Muslim has NOT been a >bloodthirsty jihadi maniac has NO BEARING on the actual >content of THEIR holy writ.

My Muslim neighbors (who suprisingly enough are not bloodthirsty) would probably be amused at a Christian lecturing them on the content of THEIR holy writ.


118 posted on 11/20/2005 10:52:50 AM PST by bkepley
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To: bkepley

you evidently either cannot read, or have a very short memory.

cast your eye up-thread: I have explicitly stated that I am NOT a Christian.

Now, the next time you have a chummy chat with your Muslim neighbors, ask them how the Koran can say "there is no compulsion in religion" in an early revelation, but then state in later revelations that the penalty for heresy, apostasy or conversion away from Islam, and paganism is DEATH.

I don't need to be a Muslim to read and understand the literal meaning of the Koran and Hadith.

Indeed, I began to read them because a friend, a Persian and lapsed Muslim, was horrified that I (like you, now, it seems) thought the bowdlerized made-for-PR "five pillars/religion of peace" nonsense was a faithful rendition of Islam.

He used very strong language to persuade me to cure my ignorance of the true nature of Islam by reading the source material.

I have done so.

Don't blame me for comprehending the clear denotation of the words attributed to Mohammed.
Blame those who have fooled you into believing a Kumbayaa lie.


119 posted on 11/20/2005 11:03:05 AM PST by King Prout (many accuse me of being overly literal... this would not be a problem if many were not under-precise)
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To: King Prout
Now, the next time you have a chummy chat with your Muslim neighbors

What's up with this sneer? I didn't choose them as neighbors and as far as I'm concerned they're just people who might have chosen the wrong parents.

120 posted on 11/20/2005 11:10:41 AM PST by bkepley
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