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Vatican Official Refutes Intelligent Design
The News Herald ^ | Nov 18, 2005 | NICOLE WINFIELD (AP)

Posted on 11/18/2005 10:14:11 AM PST by shooter223

VATICAN CITY (AP) -- The Vatican's chief astronomer said Friday that "intelligent design" isn't science and doesn't belong in science classrooms, the latest high-ranking Roman Catholic official to enter the evolution debate in the United States.

The Rev. George Coyne, the Jesuit director of the Vatican Observatory, said placing intelligent design theory alongside that of evolution in school programs was "wrong" and was akin to mixing apples with oranges.

"Intelligent design isn't science even though it pretends to be," the ANSA news agency quoted Coyne as saying on the sidelines of a conference in Florence. "If you want to teach it in schools, intelligent design should be taught when religion or cultural history is taught, not science."

His comments were in line with his previous statements on "intelligent design" - whose supporters hold that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by a higher power.

(Excerpt) Read more at hosted.ap.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: intelligentdesign; vatican
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To: BikerNYC

We are in fact discussing here the statements made by a vatican employee.

The pope get's discretion over him.


21 posted on 11/18/2005 10:44:29 AM PST by x5452
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To: shooter223
"If you want to teach it in schools, intelligent design should be taught when religion or cultural history is taught, not science."

Perhaps the 'Theory of Evolution' should also be taught in religion or cultural history classes also. Not many (if any) scientific 'facts' exist to support the 'Theory of Evolution'.

22 posted on 11/18/2005 10:50:19 AM PST by 1_Of_We
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Random mutation isn't scientific either. It's pure speculation, dogma of the religion of nothingness. If random mutation is going to be taught then ID should also be taught.


23 posted on 11/18/2005 10:50:19 AM PST by webboy45
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To: x5452

Genesis is not meant to be taken literally. Its a folk tale.


24 posted on 11/18/2005 10:51:18 AM PST by conserv13
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To: conserv13

The cardinal, Christoph Schönborn, archbishop of Vienna, a theologian who is close to Pope Benedict XVI, staked out his position in an Op-Ed article in The New York Times on Thursday, writing, “Evolution in the sense of common ancestry might be true, but evolution in the neo-Darwinian sense - an unguided, unplanned process of random variation and natural selection - is not.”

http://www.acepilots.com/mt/2005/07/10/leading-cardinal-redefines-churchs-view-on-evolution/

"Only when we meet the living God in Christ do we know what life is. We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary." -Pope Benedict

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2005/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20050424_inizio-pontificato_en.html


25 posted on 11/18/2005 10:52:05 AM PST by x5452
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To: x5452
“Evolution in the sense of common ancestry might be true, but evolution in the neo-Darwinian sense - an unguided, unplanned process of random variation and natural selection - is not.”

I don't believe that.

26 posted on 11/18/2005 10:55:31 AM PST by conserv13
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To: webboy45
Random mutation isn't scientific either. It's pure speculation

Random mutations happen all the time and they can be observed.

27 posted on 11/18/2005 10:55:36 AM PST by Strategerist
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To: conserv13

That's all well and good, but that doesn't qualify you, or anyone else who doesn't beleive that, to work for the Vatican.


28 posted on 11/18/2005 10:56:43 AM PST by x5452
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To: Duffboy

That was because Christ, who intervened in nature,
creating food, walking on water(without pontoons mind you), becoming undead, calming storms with his word, said that what we now call the "Old Testament" was indeed Gods word, and that Gods word stands forever and cannot be broken...

the Jews of his time argued with him cause they felt their
word (Old Testament) was Gods word, and argued from it
to try and disprove Jesus (known as the Christ, or anointed one)
Where in the world did you get the idea that the Jews
(other than the unbelieving Jews) thought that the
"Old Testament" was not Gods word?


29 posted on 11/18/2005 10:59:35 AM PST by Getready ((fear not...))
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To: GOP_Party_Animal
The Vatican has a chief astronomer?

Yep. They even have their own large telescope in Arizona, and a world-class meteorite collection.

30 posted on 11/18/2005 10:59:39 AM PST by Strategerist
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To: x5452

Indeed, I am without faith as regards the bible , fairy tales, the boogy man and believing I can shoot par golfing.
Call me practical.
Remember, Peter asked Jesus " can walk on water'?
Jesus supposedly replied, when Peter tried it and almost drowned, 'ye. of little faith".
I contend if a person believes he/she can walk on water that person has plenty of faith!


31 posted on 11/18/2005 11:01:24 AM PST by Duffboy
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To: shooter223
Intelligent design is Agnostic Creativism..

Evolution is Dialectic Scientific Material sub-Marxism..

32 posted on 11/18/2005 11:01:37 AM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole..)
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To: x5452

So?


33 posted on 11/18/2005 11:08:40 AM PST by sinkspur (Trust, but vilify.)
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To: hosepipe

Are you saying Charles Darwin and Karl Marx got together to " fool the masses'? ( the Origin of the Species was published in 1860, well before Marx's 'Communist Manifesto".)


34 posted on 11/18/2005 11:14:16 AM PST by Duffboy
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To: Duffboy
Genesis, as well as much of the bible was written circa" 600bc.

The original basis for this late of a date for Genesis authorship, namely, that writing had not evolved until about 1000 BC, is thoroughly discredited.

Cordially,

35 posted on 11/18/2005 11:16:47 AM PST by Diamond (Qui liberatio scelestus trucido inculpatus.)
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To: 1_Of_We
Not many (if any) scientific 'facts' exist to support the 'Theory of Evolution'.

False. Here are two definitions, followed by lots of facts. You may not like them, but the entire photograph consists of facts. And that is just the most photogenic of the lot--there are tens of thousand more where those came from.

Data: factual information, especially information organized for analysis or used to reason or make decisions

Fact: when an observation is confirmed repeatedly and by many independent and competent observers, it can become a fact

Figure 1.4.4. Fossil hominid skulls. Some of the figures have been modified for ease of comparison (only left-right mirroring or removal of a jawbone). (Images © 2000 Smithsonian Institution.)


Your judgement of what is and is not a scientific fact appears to be clouded by religious belief and dogma; here are definitions of those terms as well:

Belief: any cognitive content (perception) held as true; religious faith

Dogma: a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof


36 posted on 11/18/2005 11:18:14 AM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: Duffboy
[ Are you saying Charles Darwin and Karl Marx got together to " fool the masses'? ( the Origin of the Species was published in 1860, well before Marx's 'Communist Manifesto".) ]

What I sayin is... Is Jesus GOD.?..

If he WAS, he still IS, if he WASN'T he still ISN'T

37 posted on 11/18/2005 11:18:37 AM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole..)
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To: shooter223

Much of Genesis has its roots in Babylonian mythology - and there are two creation stories in Genesis. Substantial portions of the Old Testament were writen during the Babylonian exile, thus source materials were "borrowed."


38 posted on 11/18/2005 11:27:44 AM PST by Humvee (Beliefs are more powerful than facts - Paulus Atreides - BOCA RATON)
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To: Elpasser
And his scientific points and arguments that life was not intelligently designed are...? Just more rhetoric.

The only "rhetoric" here is your attempt to twist what was said. He only said ID was not science and should not be taught as such. He never said he did not believe life was intelligently designed.

Only that such a thing is belief and not science.

SD

39 posted on 11/18/2005 11:29:42 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: shooter223
refute - to prove to be false or erroneous; overthrow by argument or proof

If it is possible for a Vatican official to actually refute ID, it must be falsifiable after all.
40 posted on 11/18/2005 11:58:26 AM PST by unlearner
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