it's simply French tradition.
Posted on 11/07/2005 2:44:49 AM PST by Dane
French police made 395 arrests last night as riots intensified for the 11th consecutive night, with violence and fire engulfing towns from the North to the Mediterranean.
In the impoverished suburbs and satellite towns around Paris, where the unrest began on October 27, churches, schools and warehouses were set alight. At least 1,408 vehicles were destroyed, many more than on previous nights, and the random attacks have spread into the heart of the city.
In Grigny, south of the capital, a gang of around 200 youths are reported to have lured police into a housing estate before opening fire with hunting rifles. At least 30 officers were injured, two seriously with lead pellets in the legs and neck.
Riots broke out in beacons of disaffection across the country from Lille, on the border with Belgium, to Montpellier on the Mediterranean coast. In Toulouse, police used tear gas to disperse a mob. Cars were set alight on the streets of Nantes, Orleans, Rennes and Rouen, and youths in St Etienne forced passengers off a bus before burning it. Churches were set ablaze in northern Lens and southern Sete.
SNIP
In Strasbourg, youths stole a car and rammed it into a housing project, setting the vehicle and the building on fire. "We’ll stop when Sarkozy steps down," the defiant 17-year-old driver told an Associated Press reporter.
Police are calling for a night-time curfew in affected areas and some senior officers have demanded that troops are brought on to the streets.
Michel Gaudin, France's most senior police officer, said today: "We are witnessing a sort of shock wave that is spreading across the country."
(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...
IMHO this violence and rioting has nothing to do with anything except war.
Only the lefties would use such an opportunity to say we need more social programs to "help" these people.
I think the French need a second amendment.
What makes le Pen a "bastard"? Seems like he has been correct all along regarding the Muslem/immigrant threat to France. Many would call him a patriot who would do a hell of a lot better at managing this than Chirec and that former UN communist.
I am sorry, defensive?
I'm not sure I know exactly what you are talking about?
What are we talking about here?
France.
What is happening in France, what is driving it, what the likely outcomes will be, and what it all means.
You and I have a very different viewpoint.
I think that what has happened here is that social exclusion of the Beurs in particular, also others (there are many blacks in these photos, and blacks are not mostly Muslims) was provoked to riot by the deaths of two young men in a police pursuit. That word got around Clichy and a riot ensued, which spread because of pent-up frustration and general stupidity. I see the Muslim clerics trying to calm tensions but being ignored or worse. The Grand Mufti of the Grand Mosque had his car pelted with stones and had to withdraw.
What I don't see, yet, is Islamist extremism.
I see very constrained violence, with some exceptions, redolent of bad labor unrest. I see a lot of stupid property crime. I distinguish the difference and so do most French people.
Nobody likes arson and rioting. My relatives in Bondy live across the street from a shopping center that was torched. Nobody is happy about this, but there is business on the street during the day, and then the riots resume at night. They think that this is the result of exclusion and joblessness and anger at the police, and I share their view.
You think that this is about the relentless march of Islam towards Eurabia. You see it fundamentally linked to Palestine, the slaying of Van Gogh, and the War on Terror.
You are certain this is so.
We do not agree.
I think you are anchoring on events external to France and the way things work in France and projecting that template into France.
You think that I am blind, stupid, an appeaser and a liar to boot, without ties to or comprehension of France. I gather this from your posts.
At this point, we shall have to continue to disagree and await developments.
I will not be surprised if the Islamists attempt to radicalize the situation by resorting to heavy weapons to kill some cops or civilians, and thereby trigger a military intervention.
But I will be very surprised if the Beurs join with the radicals. I expect that, in the face of serious intervention following such an event, the Beur who were in this out of spite and rage and a sense of exclusion will go home and stay there until things blow over, leaving the Islamists rather exposed. And I expect that a combination of affirmative action and jobs programs will draw off enough of them that normalcy can return.
You prophesy nothing short of the destruction of France.
One of us is going to be bitterly disappointed.
I am confident mine is the truer read.
You are, of course, welcome to your opinion. I think, and hope, you are wrong.
Wasn't pulling your leg. Some seem to think it's ONLY a poverty issue and has nothing to do with, or very little to do with Islam. U.S. media seems to be pushing that sorry tale.
I was just trying to get the story straight. :) Thanks.
If ONLY President Bush WOULD talk like THAT!! Been away from my Freeper fix for a few days & trying to catch up.
Let's see, France is still burning..one man is dead (but it won't matter..he was not an 'innocent' disinfranchised, poor 'youth'..lol)...More bad polls from WP/ABC for ALL the republicans now...FOR CRYING OUT LOUD..WHEN IS THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION GOING TO FIGHT BACK!!
Sorry..I just had to blow off steam. Laura Ingraham was right this morning. President Bush needs to come out swinging for once..we can not do it all for this administration on the internet and AM radio.
I even read a ridiculous article that the French (or other euro lefties are blaming the France riots on a CIA plot)!! Can Carl Levin & Ted Kennedy be far behind?..lol
HELLO..ANYONE HOME AT 1600 PENN.? PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD..FIGHT BACK!! WE were RIGHT to go into IRAQ..WE are right to spread freedom in the hopes of a peaceful Middle East! THE POLICY IS SOLID..the communication of it SUCKS!!
No. They did this because they are assholes and want to get a rise out of people. I also do not think that most punks who scrawl swastikas on walls are really Nazis.
"Wasn't pulling your leg. Some seem to think it's ONLY a poverty issue and has nothing to do with, or very little to do with Islam. U.S. media seems to be pushing that sorry tale."
It doesn't have anything to do with Islam.
It is not JUST poverty. In material terms, the Beurs are not poor. They are clothed, sheltered and eat. Exclusion and joblessness is the other part. They cannot get jobs because French society won't hire them. Without a job, one cannot assimilate.
BTTT
"You represent everything we despise about the French."
"in post 582 should read I, not we. I for one really appreciate your insight into this discussion."
Oh, that's ok. I do my best to present the way that France thinks. Many find this despicable, and me despicable for doing it. Life goes on.
I really do understand how you feel...(but) Let us keep our eye on the donut, not the hole! Actions DO speak louder than words. Think: Afghanistan. Iraq. I am telling myself to be patient. Much is being achieved and the obstacles have been and still are, immense.
BTTT
"It doesn't have anything to do with Islam.
It is not JUST poverty. In material terms, the Beurs are not poor. They are clothed, sheltered and eat. Exclusion and joblessness is the other part. They cannot get jobs because French society won't hire them. Without a job, one cannot assimilate."
For goodness sake, do you 'hear' yourself? The 'Beurs' are not poor. They are clothed, sheltered and eat...SO SOMEONE ELSE IS PAYING FOR THEIR CLOTHES, THEIR FOOD AND THE ROOF OVER THEIR HEAD???? AND FOR THAT, THEY BURN PARIS?????
You really do think we are idiots, don't you? Your defence of islam is becoming intolerable. Are you an imam?
Be a dear and find out for us if Madonna & Johnny Depp have vacated France yet,would you please? That would be news we could use..(lol) Most of us know the score..France brought this on themselves and most of Europe will fall to the Islamist hordes within 10 years if they do not have an AWAKENING and get with the program! Good luck!!
I would like to see a Washingtton Post poll on how many Americans would be willing to send troops to France or Denmark to save them from the Islamists! Now..THAT would be an interesting poll!! (rolling eyes)
English translation: "We're wimps who've lost our manhoods. Don't send American troops again. Just send lots and lots of K-Y Jelly."
it's simply French tradition.
Tough for some to break out of the template that some hold dear, isn't it? The more I read, the more I think this is not much about Islam, and much more about an underclass youth riot, one that France is obviously not used to dealing with effectively. The Immans run around trying to calm things, but the thugs are their own agenda. The upside is that it will indeed I suspect cause the French to think about their future.
Love IT!
Well I hope the French get wise and give into the demands of the terrorist...... errr... I mean yoots....
"It doesn't have anything to do with Islam."
Then why are the "youth' yelling out ALLAH AKBAR all over France and Denmark as they burn the place down? I heard it with my own ears on a report out of the region tonight. Why yell an Islamist prayer if it has nothing to do with ISLAM? You really need to get clue here chap, before your find yourself a dhimmi wearing a burka.
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