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To: HKMk23

You're really not comprehending what I'm saying, are you?

Since I can't say it any plainer, and don't want to have to repeat myself, I'll just ask you to go back and re-read my posts on this thread from the start.

Christians are to teach and exhort other Christians using sound Biblical judgement and discernment - rebuking a fellow believer when necessary. Paul's letters to Timothy and the Corinthian church explain this, as does Proverbs 3:21. If Christians weren't supposed to correct and counsel other Christians in areas of sound doctrine, then large parts of the Bible are rendered useless - namely the Great Commission. How are we to preach to the lost if we can't discern their motives and judge whether or not they're indeed saved?

>>Whatever happened to "Just As I Am"?<<

It's been drafted into the Book of Rick Warren.

There used to be a time where the Lord's day was set apart, sanctified, and kept holy by the general population. Stores were closed, bars were closed, and people who attended church dressed in their Sunday Best (yes, even if it were jeans or overalls, they were still 'the best' of all the other pairs).

Now, schools have sporting practices/games on Sunday, people can go to the bar or package store, and no one thinks twice about any of it. It comes down to respect, modesty, and a general sense of what's proper and what isn't.

My Grandmother used to keep a clean, fresh apron by the front door, just in case anyone happened to come by for a visit, she could change quickly. People used to dress nicely when they went out - now people go shopping in their pajamas.

It just shows a general laziness and lack of respect.


278 posted on 10/19/2005 12:44:41 PM PDT by ItsOurTimeNow ("Heart of my own heart, whatever befall")
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To: ItsOurTimeNow
You're really not comprehending what I'm saying, are you?

To the contrary, I understand you perfectly. In your mind, the change in modes of dress at church is reflective of a deterioration in godliness. You are concerned that, because you see a decrease in the quality of outward appearance, people are inwardly less focused on -- and, by extension, less committed to -- God. The problem is that thre IS NOT a two-way link between what people do with their outside and their spiritual health on the inside.

While it is true that poor attitudes tend to lead toward shabby dress, that isn't always true, and the REVERSE -- that shabby dress is a bona fide indication of poor inward attitudes -- is even less often true. We've all met well-heeled people who are spiritually bankrupt, and Jesus had some whithering words on the subject in Matthew 23, vv.25-28. Oddly, I cannot recall either Jesus, or any of the apostles, rebuking anyone for coming to God poorly dressed, and I've received some of the best spiritual wisdom of my life from men who were not wearing suits -- or even a shirt and tie. Nearly all of their comments were focused primarily on the condition of the inner man. To paraphrase Jesus, "Clean the inside of the cup and dish, then the outside will be clean, as well."

At one time, it would have been unthinkable for any man -- least of all, a Christian -- to appear in public without his hat. Today, nobody gives it a second thought. Are we all under dressed? Are we all immoral and backslidden for our lack of hats? I think not, but the time-travelling Christian from those days would surely be led to intercede for our salvation. This illustrates the potential absurdity in applying old standards to the present, and the disconnect between our outward appearance and our spirituality. Ultimately, what is (or ought to be) important is that undergirding principles of modesty not be violated.

Now, you bring up Paul and Timothy -- and I wholly agree with your comments at that point, by the way -- so consider the saints of their day and their mode of dress. The vast majority of people had only one set of clothes. What you wore all the time was what you wore to the meeting and nobody thought the better or worse of you for doing so. Since that was his paradigm, St. Paul could walk into a church today and, regardless of how anyone were dressed, he would simply conclude the they dressed that way all the time. There would certainly be no inference at all in his mind as to positive or negative spiritual implications lurking behind the scenes. So, I say, ought it also be with us, and this is the pont I am making: judging by outward appearances is a blind guide and a deception that leads to error.

While I agree with you that it would be nice if everyone dressed up for church, then again, God didn't chose David based on his wardrobe, and the scribes and Pharisees were resoundingly rebuked despite theirs. David is noteworthily referred to as a man after God's own heart, and the Pharisees -- a brood of vipers. Therefore, let each dress modestly after whatever fashion he is led to prefer, let no one consider it any indication of spirituality or lack thereof, and let all stand soberminded in humility before God recognizing that He, alone, is our True Judge.

281 posted on 10/19/2005 2:36:22 PM PDT by HKMk23 ("In a land of moral imbeciles, I knew I could be king." -- Aaron Tonken, Celebrity Manipulator)
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To: ItsOurTimeNow
It just shows a general laziness and lack of respect.

So a teenager wearing a pair of pajamas to school is disrespectful? To whom? His/her peers? His/her instructors? If the teenager's pajamas are decent and clean, how is it disrespectful? It's an article of clothing. That's all it is.

My daughter wore them and in now way did her ability to learn diminish because of it. If I am not mistaken, she wore them the day of an Algebra test and she passed the test with an A+. She wasn't disrespectful in attitude towards anyone. She didn't disrupt others. So, tell me how it was disrespectful of her to wear them. How did it make her lazy?

282 posted on 10/19/2005 6:24:24 PM PDT by PleaseNoMore
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