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| GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach | |
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Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution. |
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Posted on 10/14/2005 4:44:24 PM PDT by blam
I love this, it is called 'theory' bashing or throwing out that cup of tea leaves and using facts.
The same goes for Brittany, with one of the branches completely disappearing in the 1300s or thereabouts as it's last example bit the dirt before an onslaught of Gallo. This left behind a plethora of surnames with unusual prefixes and honorifics.
Scotland is a special case since yet another branch of the ancient Celtic languages prevailed in most places until the arrival of the Scots in the 9th Century (who brought both a q and p version with them). Although no one knows what really happened, I suspect the Scots, with their Viking allies, managed to remove and replace the natives!
Given that so many of the communities in the Celtic Fringe were illiterate until modern times, what they spoke in the distant past in any particular place is very little more than a good guess. Of course, in the far distant past, we know they owned Greek scribes because that's the language in which their business and religious affairs were conducted.
Given that so many of the communities in the Celtic Fringe were illiterate until modern times, what they spoke in the distant past in any particular place is very little more than a good guess.
We do have a decent sampling of writing in the native languages from the Dark Ages and Middle Ages, and the selction is particularly rich coming from Ireland and Wales, which show the Goidelic/Brythonic split pretty nicely. There are also many, many examples of Roman inscriptions using local languages and names for deities, which strongly indicate that whatever local variations in languages may have existed, the general split was there. There's also the Irish Ogham stones, even the earliest examples of which are written in proto-Gaelic.
Of course, in the far distant past, we know they owned Greek scribes because that's the language in which their business and religious affairs were conducted.
That's a new one on me, as well. Are you talking about their pre-Roman, pre-literate past? I'm not aware of any examples of Greek writing which show Celtic business affairs - in fact the only example of pre-Roman examples of Celtic written records at all is the Coligny Calendar, which was definitely written in Gaulish rather than Greek. I will try to remember to ask Alexei Kondratiev about all this.
Most of our earliest materials concerning the comings and goings of the Scota, et al, are in Greek ~ these are not Greek records, but Scota records in Greek!
In an earlier time Sumerian played a similar part in the Middle East, and in a later time Latin played the same part throughout Europe and the Mediterranean.
BTW, the last report I read concerning what the Picts spoke suggested their language group had many Celtic words acquired from the Celtic tribes with whom they traded, but otherwise it stood alone (as does Basque).
BTW, it was still Alba up until the 9th century when the Scota and their Viking allies took over the place, so differentiation into Alba and Scotia slops over the Romano-Brittain period and can be confusing.
I dunno, I think your information about the Picts (at least) is about 20-30 years out of date. It's not what is being taught in Celtic studies classes currently.
The Dark Ages was a world-wide event.
btt
The 3rd Century was a period of decline. It was rescued by Diocletian and Constantine
See above post. Sorry, I did not look back to see who had posted the article.
Thank you. It is very interesting.
It's interesting not only how little we know (firmly) about the distant past, but also how little we often know about the recent past.
For example, the son of Louis L'Amour, the Western writer, is trying to write a biography of his father, but is having trouble putting together a complete narrative. There are periods of years at a time where L'Amour simply disappeared - in the South Pacific, maybe into Russia, and sometimes even in the Midwest. In the books that have been printed recently, there are notes from the son asking for information ... "He might have been here in these years, he might have been calling himself this name, or that name, I think he mentioned a ship called Something, or maybe that was later ..." And all this in the 20th century.
Hope y'all don't mind me putting about 11/2 cents in.
There was a mini-ice age around 1100 AD. Not sure of the dates, but it was probably caused by an astroid crash or volcano. There have been several TV shows on it. The effects were noted in civilizations all over the world and the rings of trees from different locales bear the theory out.
There's been a variety of interesting possibilities discussed here. I'll be looking into more sources on my next trip to the library.
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Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution. |
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| GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach | |
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Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution. |
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