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To: cornelis
"What does Darwin mean by "if useful?""

It increases the number of offspring. The tautology is there as you intimated but should be removed by a revision of the definition. Perhaps someone should come up with a non-tautological definition of selection.

273 posted on 10/14/2005 4:45:25 PM PDT by b_sharp (Making a monkey of a creationist should be a natural goal.)
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To: b_sharp
Perhaps someone should come up with a non-tautological definition of selection.

The only tautology would be if someone said: "The survivors survive." There's no tautology at all in the concept of natural selection -- in competitive circumstances, those who survive and breed are the most fit. Creationists have been harping on this "tautology" issue for generations. Like all other creationist arguments, it has no merit.

274 posted on 10/14/2005 4:53:22 PM PDT by PatrickHenry ( I won't respond to a troll, crackpot, retard, or incurable ignoramus.)
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To: b_sharp
It increases the number of offspring.

Hopefully that won't be a runaway virus. Definitely not useful. Here's a shot at revision: if the variation that is preserved is not useful, it will go by the term Unnatural Selection.

275 posted on 10/14/2005 4:57:40 PM PDT by cornelis
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To: b_sharp
The tautology is there as you intimated but should be removed by a revision of the definition. Perhaps someone should come up with a non-tautological definition of selection.

Selection is a label given to an observation. It may appear tautological in popular science writing, but it is shorthand for an observation, not a logical argument.

276 posted on 10/14/2005 4:57:58 PM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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