Tour Boat Overturns in Adirondack NY Lake; Numerous Fatalities Reported

Fox News ^ | October 2, 2005 | Fox News

[satan]

Just returned from NC to learn my 90 year old aunt was on the boat and did not survive. Many were seniors from Bedford Township (Temperance) Michigan.

[Trust but Verify]

They were probably on some sort of organized tour, booked in anticipation of seeing autumn foliage. My parents went on these types of trips all the time after they retired. It is possible that weather conditions have delayed the colors in upstate NY, as they have in Wisconsin. We went away for the weekend expecting to see some color, but we saw none.

[spanalot]

"Way up in the thread a picture is posted depicting a double-decked superstructure"

That does not appear to be the boat - its is the small 40' with one deck level at the top of the gunwhale.

[spanalot]

""I can imagine some greedy type putting in 8 rows of benches seating 3 on either side of an aisle. The boat pictured is too small for that many passengers. . . I imagine that these tours were not free and I imagine that 50 people paid more than 49. There are greedy people everwhere.<<"

"I hope some valid information catches up to your imagination. . .and that some facts will soon emerge and speak for themselves re this tragedy. "

What imagination? My observations are based on counting the rows of passengers in the photo and assuming what appears to be an 8' beam . And given that the deck is even with the top of the gunwhales (that is the "side" to you landlubber), and given the shallow draft precluding any mass in the keel, and given the fact THAT THE THING TIPPED OVER IN CLEAR AND CALM CONDITIONS, ergo my conclusion that it was an unseaworthy, top heavy design for that many passengers.

[spanalot]

"I would venture to guess that the Ethan Allen had a great amount of water in her bilge(s) due to leakage (presently unknown source or cause). "

Good point but also notice how high the deck is - even with the gunwhale. Way too top heavy

[spanalot]

"My guess is that a number of small things went wrong all at the same time to make this happen"
Very possible but one BIG thing is that the beam of this boat and the height of the deck is WAY out of line for 50 passengers.

You look at any 50 passenger fishing boat and it is 5 times the tonnage, twice the beam and far more draft - plus whats up with the captain not needing a license for a 49 passenger boat for hire? That is ludicrous.

[ErnBatavia]

Very sorry to hear that this tragedy has touched our FReeper family.

[AnAmericanMother]

See post 273.

We were thinking along the same lines.

[AnAmericanMother]

A fishing boat is a different proposition - broad in the beam for cargo purposes, the stability is just a side effect (they wallow horribly on account of the broad beam - I used to SCUBA on wrecks off the Jersey coast out of Brielle in a converted shrimper. Ugh. I was always seasick until I got into the water.)

BTW, it's spelled "gunwales" and pronounced "gunnels". Nothing to do with whales. And technically the gunwales are just the top edge of the "freeboard", not the side of the vessel. On the old wooden Navy vessels, it was the "wale" or "weal", in other words the strengthened top edge of the freeboard where the guns were mounted.

[AnAmericanMother]

Sometimes things just go wrong. It may well be nobody's fault, just a combination of circumstances. Whether it was people or the seats that slid to one side, the result would be the same.

[spanalot]

"BTW, it's spelled "gunwales" and pronounced "gunnels". Nothing to do with whales"

Well I never got used to those new fangled spellings and most wood boats would sink were it not for its "Whales".

"Basic parts of a wooden boat:

Keel, stem, stern, strakes, frames, whales, gunwhales, stringers,
thwarts, keelson, mast step, stealers, rigging,"

And re: the importance of a broad beam for stability, that is why trawlers come in thru the inlets with their outriggers down - to lower their CG and keep it within the beam. In fact i saw one go down in Barnegat Inlet not far from Brielle - I think it kills more than any other inlet on east coast.

[Vob]

Water in the bilge would be my guess as well. I have seen just such and accident occur but fortunately no deaths were involved.

vob

[quietolong]

I caught you reply there. One thing. It did not capsize because of the people running to one side. The ship started listing to the opposite side when that happend.

She went over for what ever reason the engineering staff could not ballast the ship. The number of people on board was much less that it had operated in the past before it’s licensed capacity was reduced.

That being said she was made too top heavy.

If you haven’t read the book:

The Sinking of the Eastland: America's Forgotten Tragedy.

Do so. It’s a interesting read. Also a real tear jerker. After looking at some of the images. You go. But for the grace of God.......

Probable/Possible Causes
http://www.eastlanddisaster.org/causes.htm

I personally think the engineering staff got there in’s & out’s mixed up. ( they were pumping water out not bringing in the tanks like they thought).

[sageb1]

"Just returned from NC to learn my 90 year old aunt was on the boat and did not survive. Many were seniors from Bedford Township (Temperance) Michigan."

I am so very sorry. My condolences to you and your family.

[AnAmericanMother]

I'm very familiar with the Eastland . . . I read an article in American Heritage magazine as a child. Forget which issue it was in, but long ago (back in the 60s). The image that has stuck with me is the dockworkers bringing up the little girl all dressed in white with long, Alice-in-Wonderland hair streaming wet.

This doesn't look like an Eastland situation though, unless this vessel has had stability problems from the git go. There were plenty of people who refused to board the Eastland that day, and it had had several close calls in the past. Very narrow beam with tall superstructure.

This is the first I've heard of the ship listing the opposite way. The technical details will have to be shaken out as the investigation goes on . . . most of what we hear in the early news is inaccurate, and eyewitness accounts can be very contradictory and confusing.

[AnAmericanMother]

Barnegat is a bad place. It was featured as a Bad Example in my old Chapman's.

My parents live on the GA coast in the shrimp capital of the SE - Darien GA. The shrimp fleet comes up the Darien River to dock. Different issues from NJ - lots of shallow tidal water. The tides are tough - 9-10' usually - and lots of currents, shifting sandbars and mudbanks galore. You have to be a good seaman to work out of there.

[AnAmericanMother]

Condolences on the loss of your aunt. I'm sure many families are sadly affected by this.

[cricket]

"What imagination? My observations are based on counting the rows of passengers in the photo and assuming what appears to be an 8' beam . And given that the deck is even with the top of the gunwhales (that is the "side" to you landlubber), and given the shallow draft precluding any mass in the keel, and given the fact THAT THE THING TIPPED OVER IN CLEAR AND CALM CONDITIONS, ergo my conclusion that it was an unseaworthy, top heavy design for that many passengers."

IMHO, you have only moved from 'imagination' to 'assumptions'. . .

. . .as for tipping over in 'calm conditions'; the investigative description does not address whether or not, this craft was being piloted carelessly or not (a situation which a passenger might experience as less than a calm condition). . .

. . .and we have yet to hear relevant information re the other boat - sharing the 'calm'. How fast was it traveling; how close. . .and if it was moving recklessly.

We hear only that this 'other boat'- reportedly - created a wake (which again, could make the descriptive 'calm' on the lake, relative - if only for a moment).

You have every right to speculate; but at least be open to recognizing it as just that. . .

[rs79bm]

Not joking at all. I feel terrible for the people that lost their lives and wish that all the necessary precautions had taken place so that this didn't have to happen.

[rs79bm]

I just heard on the Syracuse news that survivors say that they felt a suddent shift of the boat to one side and that their benches were not anchored to the floor and everything slid to one side.

If that were the case then obviously all safety considerations were not factored into the design of the boat. Does anyone know if this boat was designed as a tourboat or was it modified into being a tourboat?