Tour Boat Overturns in Adirondack NY Lake; Numerous Fatalities Reported

Fox News ^ | October 2, 2005 | Fox News

[CedarDave]

Fox News reporting a tour boat named the "Ethan Allen" has overturned in a lake in northern New York state. 46-50 persons were on board and rescues are on going. Searching for an AP link...

[GAB-1955]

"Where were the life-vests?"

Abroad, and in the right numbers; however, the boat overturned so quickly that few people could put them on.

ALWAYS WEAR YOUR PFD if the weather a) is bad, b) looks bad, c) threatens to be bad...

ALWAYS WEAR YOUR PFD.

[GAB-1955]

"Where were the life-vests?"

Abroad, and in the right numbers; however, the boat overturned so quickly that few people could put them on.

ALWAYS WEAR YOUR PFD if the weather a) is bad, b) looks bad, c) threatens to be bad...

ALWAYS WEAR YOUR PFD.

[AnAmericanMother]

In a capsizing accident, a PFD could be a real problem.

I'm used to it because I WW kayak, and used to do a lot of Sunfish/Sailfish sailing, so I'm used to being caught under a sail or upside down in a kayak. But for somebody who isn't used to it, a PFD could be counterproductive if you got caught under the capsized vessel . . . hampers diving down to get free.

With that said, though, the odds are that the benefit of the PFDs would have outweighed the possible drawbacks, especially with elderly or disabled or nonswimming passengers.

[sageb1]

"I'm used to it because I WW kayak, and used to do a lot of Sunfish/Sailfish sailing, so I'm used to being caught under a sail or upside down in a kayak."

I've never quite been able to talk myself into kayaking. The idea of turning over and being stuck in some little "hole" has always scared me to death. Canoeing yes;kayaking no. I'm just a wimp, I guess :)

[AnAmericanMother]

No, it's a very rational fear. When you take lessons from a competent instructor, the first thing they do is walk you through your fear and show you how you can reliably get out of that cockpit. Start with the right size kayak, correct seat adjustment and padding, tight fitting paddling shoes with no straps (i.e. Tevas) to hang up on stuff in the cockpit. Then you practice getting out on land . . . then sideways in the water (in just 3 feet of water in a nice clear swimming pool where you can see everything) with 2-3 guys holding the kayak so you can keep your head up . . . then upside down with 2-3 spotters ready to help if you freak out. Once you've gone through that process, it's not as scary.

A bonus advantage is that it helps you keep your head should you find yourself suddenly underwater . . .

My objections to canoes are: (1) too big to roll (2) too much freeboard to catch the wind (3) one blade instead of two (4) my knees! my ankles!

[RightWhale]

It's a genuine tragedy. Like most tragedies, the full scale of it could have been prevented if anybody's personal alarm bells had gone off.

[sageb1]

I had a feeling you could give me some no-nonsense pointers. Who knows? I may try it after all and it will be you who convinced me to give it a try! What you said about canoeing made me laugh. We went to the family camp at Lake Ossippee in NH this summer. One of my twin daughters decided she was going to learn how to maneuver the canoe and then invited me to go with her. I had one oar in the front and she had the other in the back. She yelled at me a lot! "Mom, are you working with me or against me?" We had a great time, though.

[printhead]

I read in the NY Post that the other boat is a paddle boat. I can't see it creating that much wake. I have cruised alongside many of them in my 17 footer.

[sageb1]

per FNC: waiting for Governor Pataki's press conference on deadly boat accident.

[FDNYRHEROES]

>>but there isn't anyone that can swim long fully clothed without a lot of survival training<<
It isn't that tough as long as you don't panic, which is what kills virtually everyone in the water. Anyone can drownproof fully clothed for days if they need to. Bob up and down in the water, relax to go down, one stroke to come up for air, and you will die of thirst before you get tired....

You can only hold out so long when in water that is cooler than your core body temperature. Hypothermia sets in...your mind gets impaired, you lose conciousness, you die long before thirst becomes a problem.
Ever go swimming for a couple of hours, and notice that your lips start turning bluish purple? Early signs that you better get out of the water and rewarm...

[sageb1]

Larry Cleveland, WC Sheriff's Dept. does not believe any criminality involved. The capt. was a former cop and has been doing this for years. He was "destroyed" yesterday and having a very difficult time with this.

Trooper says: Passengers felt boat shift and people slid from one side of the boat to the other.

Pataki says NY has toughest boating regulations in the US, but they will still be looking to see if anything else should be considered.

Cleveland: "No indication of any alcohol or drug use by captain." Capt. did not hold Coast Guard license, therefore he could not be required (per Coast Guard) to take sobriety or drug test anyway - BUT, there was no indication that a reason existed to motivate anyone to suggest a test be taken yesterday.

Names will be released after ok by Michigan. No administrative action taken against pilot's license. NTSB will be looking at capacity and weight, etc. L.G. has speed limit 45 mph day and 25 at night. There isn't a cruise boat on the lake that could break the evening speed limit. There is a review process underway in re: suspending license as normal course of business in investigation. Do not draw any conclusions about the pilot from this action. It is normal.

[cherry]

wheelchairs are not THAT heavy........

[cherry]

I'm originally from upstate...we honeymooned in New England and spent much time in the Adirandacks.....although, I have never been to Lake George...been to Lake Placid and Piseco and up on the lakes north of Old Forge....( anyone remember the Buffalohead?).....

anyway, we live now in Eastern Washington and the fall season here is basically the trees are dry...its semi arid here...and there is minimal color change....not even close as brilliant as back east....

[sageb1]

We don't have a lot of color yet, but the summer was hotter and much drier than usual. It's 80 degrees today, but a high of 59 is forecasted for Friday. We need colder overnight temps for the vibrant colors. I'm not sure sure we'll have them this year.

It could be worse. A few years ago we had 18 inches of snow of October 4th. yuk.

[AnAmericanMother]

LOL! There is a reason that many of us refer to a two-man canoe (OC-2) as a "Divorce Boat" . . . I wish I could find a cartoon I saw, guy in the back is swinging his paddle at guy in the front, yelling, "I told you to watch out for that rock!"

There's a long standing but mostly humorous feud between canoers and kayakers. But both stand together against rafters . . . first time my daughter and I went on one of the whitewater trips sponsored by our paddling club, I was chatting with one of the club instructors who was leading the trip. She had a huge (and I do mean HUGE) SCUBA diving sheath knife strapped to the bottom of her PFD. I asked her, "Is that to cut your buddy if you see a shark?" and she pulled it halfway out of the sheath and hissed, "No. Rafters!"

[AnAmericanMother]

Nothing anybody can do about hypothermia in the long run, but your body is surprisingly resilient as long as the water's not North Atlantic cold.

My mom learned Drownproofing from Fred Lanoue himself. It really does work - the "final exam" involves being tossed into the pool with arms and legs bound, as well as being tossed in fully clothed. You can use your pants or shirt (especially blue jeans) to rig an improvised PFD, all sorts of other clever ideas. You don't need extensive survival training, most of it is just common sense knowledge.

Most drowning deaths are due to panic not hypothermia.

[FDNYRHEROES]

Based on what I know of vessel stability, I would venture to guess that the Ethan Allen had a great amount of water in her bilge(s) due to leakage (presently unknown source or cause).
Water in bilges creates what is known as "free surface effect". Free surface reduces the amount of initial stability ("metacentric height" or "GM")that a vessel may posses. The vessel may have left the dock and operated awhile with a positive GM (metacentric height). But at some point in time, I beleive, water in her bilge area with it's free surface effect ultimately reduced the initial positive stability to a neutral and thence negative stability.
The final upsetting moment came from the other vessel's wake, when the Ethan Allen took a deep roll, creating and amplifying a roll and list, from which she could not recover. The combined effects of the wake, negative GM and free surface acted in unison to capsize the vessel. The water in her open bilges (free surface effect) flowed to the "downhill" side ever increasing her list and sealing her fate. The effect of passengers falling to the "low side" (transverse shift of weight, hence shift of the center of gravity) only hastened her demise.
Of course, this is all hypothetical, and we'll have to see what the investigation brings forward. Usually there will be a NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) investigation in matters such as this, with this many deaths.

My condolences and sympathy go out to all the families involved in this tragedy...

[FDNYRHEROES]

Nothing anybody can do about hypothermia in the long run, but your body is surprisingly resilient as long as the water's not North Atlantic cold.

What you learn and do in a pool is just ducky. Given the time and lower than body temperature of most bodies of water, hypothermia will eventually take it's toll. And that's with PFD's or improvised PFD's, drown proofing with or without Fred Lanoue himself. The water does not have to be as cold as the North Atlantic, either. As far as panic is concerned, yeah, most people die from panic. But when you get past the panic stage, hypothermia is the next threat.

[sageb1]

"I asked her, "Is that to cut your buddy if you see a shark?" and she pulled it halfway out of the sheath and hissed, "No. Rafters!"

LMAO!

I do have to admit I had the time of my life rafting on the Colorado River, but I can understand where she's coming from. There really isn't a whole heck of a lot of control with a raft. (We won our race against the boss's raft, though)! *grin*

[ariamne]

I remember that--blizzard of October 1987, wasn't it? I met my husband that year; he lost a big maple in the back yard from the heavy snow.

We go to Lake George every year. It's lovely there. I feel so badly for those folks and pray for the survivors and their families.