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Dispute over evolution goes on trial in U.S. court
Baltimore Sun ^ | September 26, 2005 | Arthur Hirsch

Posted on 09/26/2005 1:53:21 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

A Pennsylvania school district's use of "intelligent design" in its high school biology curriculum goes on trial in federal court today in the nation's first legal challenge to the idea, which contends that evolutionary theory alone does not explain how life on Earth took shape.

The lawsuit, brought by 11 parents in the Dover Area School District, attacks as unconstitutional the year-old policy of telling ninth-grade biology students that Charles Darwin's theory of evolution "is not a fact. Gaps in the Theory exist for which there is no evidence." School officials also recommend a book on intelligent design, or ID.

The plaintiffs, including the American Civil Liberties Union and Americans United for Separation of Church and State, argue that the policy -- which does not require students to study intelligent design -- serves religious, not secular ends, violating the First Amendment.

ID proponents say scientists can look at life forms and identify the work of a controlling "intelligence," although ID advocates are not specific about the nature of that force. While they do not reject all evolutionary theory, ID proponents argue that it incorrectly insists life took shape purely through a mindless process.

(Excerpt) Read more at baltimoresun.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: allcrevoallthetime; anothercrevothread; crevolist; crevorepublic; education; enoughalready; evolution; id; lawsuit; religion; scienceeducation
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To: mlc9852
And like so many others, I don't believe we descended from anything other than other humans. You believe what you like about your ancestors as you are free to do. Why not allow the rest of us the same courtesy?

Feel free to ignore the copious retroviral DNA, fossil, and biogeographical evidence. By all means preserve your ignorance at all costs. Just don't try to push ignorance into science class, thank you.

121 posted on 09/26/2005 9:32:37 AM PDT by Thatcherite (Conservative and Biblical Literalist are not synonymous)
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To: furball4paws

And how do you feel about global warming and the effect on monster hurricanes?


122 posted on 09/26/2005 9:32:54 AM PDT by mlc9852
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To: Thatcherite

It is already in science class. And your fossil record in no way proves we descended from anything other than human beings. But just keep trying to force us to believe it - you never know who just might fall for it.


123 posted on 09/26/2005 9:34:00 AM PDT by mlc9852
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To: mlc9852
Both my daughters took honors biology in high school, got excellent grade, and STILL don't believe in evolution. But they learned what they had to in order to get the grades.

So did they lie in their answers or did they tell the truth as they see it (which would have meant failing the exam)? Aren't they members of a religion with an injunction against false witness?

124 posted on 09/26/2005 9:34:43 AM PDT by Thatcherite (Conservative and Biblical Literalist are not synonymous)
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To: mlc9852
It is already in science class. And your fossil record in no way proves we descended from anything other than human beings. But just keep trying to force us to believe it - you never know who just might fall for it.

What about the retroviral evidence then? You have been shown it before in these debates. How do you account for it?

125 posted on 09/26/2005 9:35:42 AM PDT by Thatcherite (Conservative and Biblical Literalist are not synonymous)
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To: mlc9852

Did I call you something? Human are apes, by definition, but still humans just like gorillas are apes, but still gorillas.


126 posted on 09/26/2005 9:39:20 AM PDT by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
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To: mlc9852
Both my daughters took honors biology in high school, got excellent grade, and STILL don't believe in evolution. But they learned what they had to in order to get the grades.

That would make them unusual on this forum, where creationists are completely unable to state correctly the position they argue against.

127 posted on 09/26/2005 9:39:21 AM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: Thatcherite

They figured the false witness was what the teacher was telling them. Just because you learn the answers doesn't necessarily mean you have to believe them.


128 posted on 09/26/2005 9:39:48 AM PDT by mlc9852
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To: furball4paws

I don't believe humans are apes. Just because someone else believes that certainly doesn't mean I have to. Just like those who don't believe in God. That is their right.


129 posted on 09/26/2005 9:40:36 AM PDT by mlc9852
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To: mlc9852

When one has enough knowledge of a subject then debate is not only acceptable but encouraged. When one is illiterate of a subject insisting on debating it just makes one look foolish.


130 posted on 09/26/2005 9:41:29 AM PDT by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
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To: DesertSapper
You aren't bothered by an anti-American, anti-Christian group in your corner . . . I would be.

Why? I mean, if you were confident in your opinion would you really be so weak as to deny your conscience just to keep up appearances? Would you really sell out your beliefs, not because an argument compelled you to question them, but simply because opposing a usual adversary is more important to you than what you believe is the right thing to do?

Sounds very similar to the mindless knee-jerk reactions of the 'Hate Bush' crowd who refuse to support what even they would embrace if only it were presented by someone other than their sworn enemy. Myself, I prefer to hold true to my own opinions regardless of who agrees with or opposes them.

131 posted on 09/26/2005 9:42:27 AM PDT by Antonello
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To: furball4paws

I am used to the evolutionists looking foolish - doesn't seem to stop them, though.


132 posted on 09/26/2005 9:42:42 AM PDT by mlc9852
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To: mlc9852
They figured the false witness was what the teacher was telling them. Just because you learn the answers doesn't necessarily mean you have to believe them.

Your answer isn't clear. Did they supply answers in the exam that they believe to be falsehoods? That would be lying.

Any chance of you addressing that retroviral evidence? If you don't understand it perhaps you should run it by one of your clever daughters to get the rebuttal for me. If you have a valid rebuttal then you'll convince me.

133 posted on 09/26/2005 9:42:56 AM PDT by Thatcherite (Conservative and Biblical Literalist are not synonymous)
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To: mlc9852

Global warming is a theory with some, but little data to support it. The issue is in doubt. I personally am unconvinced. The only good "Greenie" point is that if GW is real, by the time we have enough data to prove it, it'll be "too late". So that scares people. That's how it gets traction. Most environmental scientists I know say "Maybe".

As to hurricanes if you check on my older posts about a week ago we discusse the effect of unicorn farts on monster hurricanes. It was enlightening 8-)


134 posted on 09/26/2005 9:48:12 AM PDT by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
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To: Thatcherite

Why do you care what my daughters believe? They learned what they needed to for grades - is that so difficult for you to comprehend? Or is that not good enough? Should they have bowed down to Darwin and exclaimed he was right all along and the Bible was wrong? Would that make you feel better?


135 posted on 09/26/2005 9:48:12 AM PDT by mlc9852
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To: furball4paws

So are you saying you don't believe everything scientists tell us?


136 posted on 09/26/2005 9:49:55 AM PDT by mlc9852
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To: mlc9852

Your belief is not required. Scientists pigeon hole most things - makes things more orderly. By definition, Man is an ape. You don't have to like it, but if will use the word then it has a specific definition. You can't have your words defined as you want without running the risk of being misunderstood or of being incapable of communication. That's why we have dictionaries.


137 posted on 09/26/2005 9:52:23 AM PDT by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
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To: furball4paws

If you want to consider yourself an ape, that is fine with me. I however am human.


138 posted on 09/26/2005 9:57:45 AM PDT by mlc9852
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To: mlc9852
Why do you care what my daughters believe? They learned what they needed to for grades - is that so difficult for you to comprehend? Or is that not good enough? Should they have bowed down to Darwin and exclaimed he was right all along and the Bible was wrong? Would that make you feel better?

You still aren't answering the question that I asked. Did they lie in their exam answers or not? Is that so hard a question?

Any chance of addressing the retroviral evidence, or getting one of your clever daughters to rebut it; I'm fascinatedly awaiting your response on that, and you keep ignoring the question.

139 posted on 09/26/2005 9:58:07 AM PDT by Thatcherite (Conservative and Biblical Literalist are not synonymous)
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To: Thatcherite

You want me to call my daughters and ask them what their answers were on tests? LOL

Why do you care? Slow day at work?


140 posted on 09/26/2005 10:00:11 AM PDT by mlc9852
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