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Intelligent designers down on Dover
The York Dispatch ^ | 9/20/2005 | CHRISTINA KAUFFMAN

Posted on 09/22/2005 6:53:07 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor

Theory's largest national supporter won't back district

The Dover Area School District and its board will likely walk into a First Amendment court battle next week without the backing of the nation's largest supporter of intelligent design.

The Discovery Institute, a Seattle-based nonprofit that describes itself as a "nonpartisan policy and research organization," recently issued a policy position against Dover in its upcoming court case.

John West, associate director of Discovery's Center for Science & Culture, calls the Dover policy "misguided" and "likely to be politically divisive and hinder a fair and open discussion of the merits of intelligent design."

Eleven parents filed a federal suit last December, about two months after the school board voted to include a statement about intelligent design in its ninth-grade biology classes.

Intelligent design says living things are so complicated they had to have been created by a higher being, that life is too complex to have developed through evolution as described by biologist Charles Darwin.

The parents, along with Americans United for the Separation of Church and State and the American Civil Liberties Union, said the board had religious motives for putting the policy in place.

The non-jury trial is expected to start in Harrisburg Sept. 26.

No surprise: The school board's attorney, Richard Thompson, said he isn't surprised the Discovery Institute has distanced itself from the school board's stance.

"I think it's a tactical decision they make on their own," said Thompson, top attorney with Michigan-based Thomas More Law Center, a law firm that specializes in cases related to the religious freedom of Christians.

Though the Discovery Institute promotes the teaching of intelligent design, it has been critical of school boards that have implemented intelligent design policies, Thompson said.

Discovery Institute's Web site offers school board members a link to a video titled "How to Teach the Controversy Legally," referring to the organization's opinion that there is a controversy over the validity of the theory of evolution.

The video doesn't specifically mention teaching intelligent design.

But Discovery Institute is the leading organization touting intelligent design research and supporting the scientists and scholars who want to investigate it.

Dover is the only school district that Discovery has publicly spoken out against. West said that's because they mandated the policy. Discovery Institute supports teaching intelligent design, but not requiring it through a school board policy.

He said there are few proponents of intelligent design who support the stand Dover's board has taken because the district has required the reading of a statement that mentions intelligent design and directs students to an intelligent design textbook.

"They really did it on their own and that's unfortunate," West said.

The "bad policy" has given the ACLU a reason to try to "put a gag order" on intelligent design in its entirety, he said.

Discovery also spoke out against Pennsylvania legislators who wanted to give school boards the option of mandating the teaching of intelligent design alongside evolution.

Avoiding politics: Teaching intelligent design is not unconstitutional, but the institute doesn't support the Dover school board's stand because it doesn't want intelligent design to become a political issue, said Casey Luskin, program officer in the Public Policy and Legal Affairs department at the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture.

He said the Discovery Institute is "not trying to hinder their case in court," but the organization wants intelligent design to be debated by the scientific community, not school boards.

Lawyer: Won't hinder case: Thompson said the Discovery Institute's noninvolvement in the trial won't hinder Dover's case because "the judge is going to look at the policy ... not who is in favor of it on the outside."

But the institute has been a hindrance to the school district's attempts to find "scientific" witnesses to testify about intelligent design, Thompson said.

Though Discovery representatives said they have never been in support of Dover's policy, Thompson said the organization's unwillingness to get involved in the trial became evident after it insisted that some of its fellows -- who were lined up to testify -- have their own legal representation, instead of the Thomas More Center, which bills itself as "The Sword and Shield for People of Faith."

Some of the Discovery Institute's intelligent design supporters backed out of testifying, even after Thompson told them they could have their own legal representation if they wanted, Thompson said.

"It was very disappointing" that the institute would prevent its members from testifying, Thompson said.

But he still found some willing Discovery fellows to testify that intelligent design is not a religious movement: Michael Behe from Lehigh University and Scott Minnich from the University of Idaho.

West said Discovery fellow Charles Thaxton is also slated to testify.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: allcrevoallthetime; anothercrevothread; crevolist; crevorepublic; enoughalready; evolution; itsgettingold; makeitstop
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To: Vive ut Vivas

Don't the female acolytes reward the male acolytes for service above and beyond?


221 posted on 09/22/2005 7:52:31 PM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: rock58seg
God would never speak to me, I don't speak hebrew.

Hey, neither does God(dess). I know English, Latin, and a little bit of Arabic.
222 posted on 09/22/2005 7:53:06 PM PDT by Vive ut Vivas
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To: b_sharp
Don't the female acolytes reward the male acolytes for service above and beyond?

Let's see that service, first.
223 posted on 09/22/2005 7:57:03 PM PDT by Vive ut Vivas
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Scientific Creation Theory .00327/1
“I do think its true that cosmologists are slightly more likely to be theists than biologists. In earlier times biology was the thing that provided the most powerful apparent evidence for the existence of a Creator – Darwin solved all that. I think, in a way, cosmology is waiting for its Darwin. However, I would add this, that biology is supremely complicated. Complexity is the really difficult thing that you might think you need a designer for – Darwin solved that. The universe actually, is not very complicated.”
-Dawkins


224 posted on 09/22/2005 7:57:11 PM PDT by Heartlander (Please support colored rubber bracelets and magnetic car ribbons)
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To: PatrickHenry; longshadow; VadeRetro; balrog666; RadioAstronomer
Intelligent Design Society of Kansas
225 posted on 09/22/2005 7:57:20 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: js1138; Right Wing Professor
People who accepted evolution passively have had to learn the arguments in some detail.

Like me. :-)

My background is astronomy and rocket science.

226 posted on 09/22/2005 8:01:01 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer (Senior member of Darwin Central)
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To: Doctor Stochastic

ROTFLMAO! That was great! :-)


227 posted on 09/22/2005 8:05:57 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer (Senior member of Darwin Central)
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To: 2ndreconmarine; DaveLoneRanger; All
("Right Wing Profesor is a toad. All toads are small. Therefore, Right Wing Professor is small" is a logical statement) but entirely erroneous based on the assumptions.

It is a logical form. But this is an argument, not a statement. The conclusion is false, based on false premises, with a valid form (A-B, B-C, A-C).

Fairly easy stuff.
228 posted on 09/22/2005 8:11:08 PM PDT by Das Outsider (Contact your Congressman and Senators today about the Able Danger investigation.)
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To: Doctor Stochastic

Applause. I keep saying that ID has some value. Humor is one of those values.


229 posted on 09/22/2005 8:13:09 PM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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But first consider the following. We would all say, because we all know it to be true, that calculating-machines, automobiles, screwdrivers and the like, are just tools or devices which are designed, made, and manipulated by human beings for their own ends. Now, you cannot say this without implying that human beings are more intelligent and capable than calculators, automobiles, screwdrivers, etc. For if we designed and made something as intelligent and capable as ourselves, or more so, it would be precisely not just a tool which we could manipulate for our own ends: it would have ends of its own, and be at least as good at achieving those ends, too, as we are at achieving ours. Similarly, suppose someone says that human beings and all other organisms are just tools or devices designed, made and manipulated by so-and-so’s for their own ends. Then he implies that so-and-so’s are more intelligent and capable than human beings.

With that in mind, consider the following representative statements made by leading sociobiologists. Richard Dawkins, easily the best-known spokesman for this movement, writes that ‘we are . . . robot-vehicles blindly programmed to preserve the selfish molecules known as genes',[1] and again that we are ‘manipulated to ensure the survival of [our] genes’.[2] The same writer also says that ‘the fundamental truth [is] that an organism is a tool of DNA’.[3] (That is, of the DNA molecules which are the organism’s genes.) Again, Dawkins says that living organisms exist for the benefit of DNA’.[4] Similarly, E. O. Wilson, an equal or higher sociobiological authority, says that ‘the individual organism is only the vehicle [of genes], part of an elaborate device to preserve and spread them…The organism is only DNA’s way of making more DNA’.[5]

I will mention in a moment some other passages in which sociobiologists imply that genes are beings of more-than-human intelligence and power, but that implication should be clear enough already from the passages just quoted. According to the Christian religion, human beings and all other created things exist for the greater glory of God; according to sociobiology, human beings and all other living things exist for the benefit of their genes. The expression ‘their genes' is probably not perfectly orthodox, from the strict sociobiological point of view; being rather too apt to suggest that genes are part of our equipment, whereas (according to sociobiology) we are part of theirs. All the same, the religious implication is unmistakable: that there exist, in us and around us, beings to whom we stand in the same humble relation as calculators, cars, and screwdrivers stand in to us.

It must be admitted that sociobiologists sometimes say other things which are inconsistent with statements like the ones I have just quoted. Dawkins, for example, sometimes protests that he does not at all believe that genes are 'conscious, purposeful agents’.[6] But these disclaimers are in vain. Of course genes are not conscious purposeful agents: everyone will agree with that. Where sociobiologists differ from other people is just that they also say, over and over again, things which imply that genes are conscious purposeful agents; and agents, at that, of so much intelligence and power that human beings are merely among the tools they make and use.

It is in Richard Dawkins’ book, The Extended Phenotype, that the apotheosis of genes has been carried furthest. Manipulation is the central idea of this book (as the author himself acknowledges),[7] and more specifically, manipulation by genes. Genes are here represented as manipulating, in their own interest, not only the bodies and behaviour of the organisms in which they sit, but just about everything under the sun.

Genes manipulate external objects. For example, spider-genes (not spiders) manipulate webs, termite-genes (not termites) manipulate mud to make their mounds, beaver-genes (not beavers) manipulate logs and water to make a dam, and so on.[8] Action at a distance, something which is usually considered to be difficult or impossible, is no trouble at all to genes.[9] No job is too big for them, either: beaver-genes can easily build a lake miles wide.[10] Genes also manipulate the behaviour of other organisms, and the victims of their manipulation need not at all be of the same species as the organisms which carry the manipulating genes.

For example, a certain kind of cuckoo deposits its egg among the eggs laid by a reed-warbler. Once the eggs hatch, the exceptionally loud begging-cry of the young cuckoo, and its exceptionally colourful 'gape’, induce the parent reed-warblers to give it more food than they give to their own young. According to Dawkins, this is a case of the genes of the cuckoo-parents manipulating the behaviour of reed-warbler parents, to the advantage of the former and the disadvantage of the latter.[11]

Now, think what this kind of description commits the user of it to. Just as maternity implies parenthood but not conversely, so manipulation implies causal influence but not conversely. The moon causally influences the tides, but it cannot manipulate them. Even if causal influence results in some advantage to the influencing agent, that is still not enough to constitute manipulation. If you and I are competing to catch the greater number of fish from our boat, and I by accident knock you overboard, then I influence your behaviour but do not manipulate it, even though your mishap improves my chances of winning the competition. To constitute manipulation, there must be the element of intended purposeful causal influence.

Most biologists would see, in a case like nest-parasitism, nothing more than an extremely complex example of causal influence. They might ascribe to the genes of the cuckoo exactly the same causal influence as sociobiologists do. What distinguishes the sociobiologist’s description of the case is his insistence that those genes are manipulating the reed-warblers’ behaviour for their own benefit. Well, cuckoos do benefit, and reed-warblers lose, by nest-parasitism. But, as we just saw in the boat case, causal influence plus resulting advantage are not enough to constitute manipulation. The causal influence must also be purposeful or intended. But is that condition satisfied in this case?

If the nest-parasitism of cuckoos is a case of manipulation, it is certainly a staggeringly-clever one: far too clever for cuckoos, in particular, to be capable of. Can a cuckoo have a purpose as complicated as that of it-feeds-its-own-young? That must be extremely doubtful. Still, let us suppose that a cuckoo is clever enough for that. He would need to be cleverer still, to be able to think up a way of achieving this purpose. In particular, could he think up a way of achieving it which did not involve any cuckoo’s ever going even within a mile of a reed-warbler? No: there is no one who will credit cuckoos with so great an intellectual feat. Yet even if a cuckoo could manage that part too, the hardest job would still lie ahead of him. For he would need, not just to have this brilliant idea, but to be able to implement it. But how is a cuckoo to do whatever engineering is required? He has no hope. Manipulative ability of any kind is not highly developed in birds, and cuckoos are distinctly below the bird-average in this respect. After all, hardly any of them can even build a nest.

But the feat of manipulation in question would not only be too hard for cuckoos: it would be too hard for us.

Suppose that nest-parasitism has not yet evolved among birds, and that young cuckoos have not yet acquired their special adaptations for it. Cuckoos (we will suppose) raise their own young, but are extremely slapdash parents. In these circumstances, we might become anxious about the survival of cuckoos, and decide to take steps to improve their reproductive performance.

Now, would you or I be clever enough to think of nest-parasitism as a means to this end? I know I never would; but perhaps you would. But would even you be able to think of a way of getting the host-birds not only to feed the young cuckoos, but to feed them better than their own offspring? A way, at that, which does not require any human cuckoo-helper ever to go near a member of the host-species? With all due respect to human intelligence, this seems hardly possible. Still, let us suppose that we did think up such a way, and that in particular we came up with the brilliant idea of endowing young cuckoos with exceptional voice and gape. Even then, the hardest part of the job would still remain: that is, to implement this idea. Well, human beings are as pre-eminent on earth for engineering ability as they are for intelligence, but we could not do this. We cannot build young cuckoos, or breed them, to precise specifications. And no genetic engineer could as yet undertake this particular task with rational confidence of success.

It would, then, be a feat of manipulation, not only far beyond cuckoo capabilities, but beyond present human capabilities, to prevail on reedwarblers, without having to go near them, to feed cuckoo-young at the expense of their own young. Yet this feat is one which, if Dawkins is right, cuckoo-genes first performed long ago, and have practised ever since without the smallest difficulty. The implication could hardly be plainer: cuckoo-genes are more intelligent and capable than human beings. The same presumably holds a fortiori for human genes.

The only way in which sociobiologists could avoid this implication would be, if they used the word ‘manipulation’, when they ascribe manipulation to genes, in some sense which does not imply purpose, as its ordinary sense does. But they do not do any such thing. Dawkins, for example, makes no distinction whatever between the manipulation which he ascribes to genes, and the ordinary sense of the word, in which he says (as we all say) that pigeons manipulate twigs and other nest-materials, beavers manipulate logs to build a dam,[12] and so on.

Gods, in addition to being thought of as more intelligent and powerful than we are, are always thought of as being immortal. It was therefore to be expected that sociobiologists would wish to ascribe this attribute too, to genes. Here is a passage from Richard Dawkins on this subject. The ‘gene…does not grow senile; it is no more likely to die when it is a million years old than when it is only a hundred. It leaps from body to body down the generations, manipulating body after body in its own way and for its own ends, abandoning a succession of mortal bodies before they sink in senility and death. The genes are the immortals…'.[13]

 

II

Most people would like some religion to be true. This may seem strange, when you consider that every religion is and must be more or less terrifying. But then, there are various things which can outweigh terror. One of them is depression, and if religion is terrifying, atheism is depressing. It is an intensely depressing thought that the brightest and best things the universe has to show are certain members of our species.

The trouble is, though, that every religion (or at any rate every one I know of) is incomprehensible when it is not obviously false. Of course, something which is incomprehensible to us might nevertheless be true, and religious people often remind the non-religious of this fact. But, though it is a fact, it is no help, because there are always many competing incomprehensibilities, from religious and other sources, vying for our acceptance. Tertullian said that he believed the Christian religion because of its absurdity. But alas, every other religion possesses the same claim on our belief (if absurdity really is a claim on our belief).

Sociobiology is not incomprehensible, but it is one of the religions which are obviously false. The only part of it that is true is the doctrine that genes are invisible. But this is not something peculiar to sociobiology. Everyone agrees that genes are invisible, at least to the naked eye and to old-fashioned microscopes. Given present-day microscopy, however, any invisibility which genes can still be said to possess is invisibility of no very deep or interesting kind. (It is not at all like the invisibility of numbers, for example.)

Sociobiologists have consciously and avowedly revived the doctrine of the ‘immortality of the germ-plasm’ (or of the ‘germ-line’), which August Weismann first published about a hundred years ago. (Dawkins, indeed, correctly describes his own overall position as extreme Weismannism'[14]) But that famous doctrine is, and always was, true only in a highly special and indeed idiosyncratic sense.

The extinction of a species (that is, its last member dying), is a common-enough occurrence in evolutionary history; and every time it happens, every gene-line peculiar to that species comes to an end too. When you die, that is also the end of every gene-line which any cell of yours had been carrying-on until then. If a man has no sons, then many of his genes - namely, at least all the ones on his Y-chromosome - are not transmitted any further. If you have no children at all, you are not a node on any gene-line which extends into the future. Not a very robust kind of immortality, this! In fact I would be thinking seriously, if I were a gene, of bringing a suit for misleading advertising against Richard Dawkins and the Weismann estate.

The ‘immortality’ of genes or of gene-lines, then, if not an obvious falsity, is an exceedingly misleading expression. (Dawkins himself, having said in the passage quoted earlier, that the genes are the immortals’, was prudent enough to add at once that they are not really.[15]) The grain of truth in the doctrine of gene-immortality is that genes, unlike most organisms, do not have a natural life-cycle ending in death. But this truth was never anything to write home about, since genes are not organisms, are not alive, and (as far as I know) have never even been thought to be so. The word ‘immortal’ means ‘alive and not subject to death’, and it therefore can be properly applied only to something living. To apply it to things which are not alive, such as DNA molecules, can only serve to bewilder oneself and other people; for example, by encouraging misplaced feelings of awe towards genes.

Genes thus lack both the durability and the life which would be needed to justify calling them the immortals’. But even if they had been alive, and much more durable than in fact they are, this would do little to make the gene-religion credible. In the god-hood stakes, the superior durability of a life-form, if not accompanied by superior intelligence and capability, does not count for much. If it did, carp would be more god-like than horses, and it would be a close-run thing between human beings and elephants. But it is not so.

The main reason, however, for thinking that sociobiology is false, is the simple one I gave at the beginning: that it is obvious that human beings are the most intelligent and capable things on earth. But genes are not human. Therefore (etc.).

Genes are so far from being the winners in the intelligence-capability stakes, that they are not even starters. They are just molecules of DNA, after all, and DNA molecules have exactly as much intelligence and purpose as (say) H2O or NaC1 molecules: namely none. They differ from almost all other molecules in having a strong tendency to produce copies of themselves. But then, ever since we first noticed that the offspring of human beings are human, that the offspring of mice are mice, etc., we might have known that there must be some physical mechanism by which parental characters are transmitted to offspring. It need not have been gene-replication, but it did have to be some sort of machinery for producing the-same-thing-again. Of the details of this machinery, a great deal is now known. But this part of science has not brought any gods to light. On the contrary, like every other part of science, it has only served to drive those elusive beings still further into the shade.

Genes, even if they were alive, and did possess intelligence and purpose, would still be hopelessly miscast in the role of the world’s greatest manipulators. Manipulation requires, not only influence and intention-to-influence, but means. Yet what means of manipulation have genes got? They are sans limbs, sans organs, sans tissues, sans nerves, sans brains…sans everything. If they were capable, under these crushing handicaps, of any sort of manipulation, they really would have a good deal of the god about them. It is logically possible (as should go without saying), that the sociobiologists are right and I am wrong. There is nothing objectionable a priori, or philosophically, about the proposition that genes are the most intelligent and capable things on earth. It is a question of fact, and nothing else, whether they are or not.

If they are, it will be an immense historical irony. Religion, which was driven out of biology by nineteenth-century Darwinism, will have been put back by - of all people - the extremists of neo-Darwinism.

This seems hardly conceivable, because for more than two thousand years science has been at war with religion. Yet if the sociobiologists are right, science has actually now brought us what the human heart has always yearned for but never before achieved: knowledge of beings which, in virtue of their immense superiority to ourselves, are proper objects of our reverence and worship.
Royal Institute of Philosophy


230 posted on 09/22/2005 8:15:44 PM PDT by Heartlander (Please support colored rubber bracelets and magnetic car ribbons)
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To: PatrickHenry
I think you mean the "Chamber of Contemplation." (Gotta strike the right note.)

Behold the "The Grotto of Sensual Surrender & Intellectual Illumination"

(Yeah; that's the ticket!)

231 posted on 09/22/2005 8:18:39 PM PDT by longshadow
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To: RadioAstronomer
Like me. :-)

If anyone at the Discovery Institute has an IQ above room temperature, they are feeling like the Talibanis just after 9/11. They have their fingerprints all over ID, and the judge is robing up.

232 posted on 09/22/2005 8:21:36 PM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: RadioAstronomer

I'm sure brushing up on evolution wasn't hard because...it's not rocket science!

(Bad joke, I know.)


233 posted on 09/22/2005 8:24:53 PM PDT by Vive ut Vivas
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Intelligent Design Society of Kansas

Very well done; an "A" for creativity and wittiness.

234 posted on 09/22/2005 8:25:01 PM PDT by longshadow
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Just For Fun

235 posted on 09/22/2005 8:25:52 PM PDT by Heartlander (Please support colored rubber bracelets and magnetic car ribbons)
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To: JohnnyM
He spoke in Genesis. God said Let there be light and there was. We are not adding or subtracting anything to this like the evos do.

Huh? Pieces have been added to and taken out of the Bible for ages - voted in or out by committees. Does that mean that when it was in the Bible before it was taken out that the Bible was in error at that time? Or is the Bible in error now that "God's Word" has been deleted because a "committee" decided that what was in the Bible was NOT God's word. Which is it?

If you say it was not God's word, then you have to admit that at one time the Bible was NOT all God's word. Then, how are you sure that it is all God's word now ... and not full of words made up by man?

236 posted on 09/22/2005 8:28:30 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: WildTurkey
Then, how are you sure that it is all God's word now ... and not full of words made up by man?

That was just the beta version. Now it's the true word, because, well, it says so.
237 posted on 09/22/2005 8:33:18 PM PDT by Vive ut Vivas
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The “Wedge Document”: How Darwinist Paranoia Fueled an Urban Legend

238 posted on 09/22/2005 8:33:39 PM PDT by Heartlander (Please support colored rubber bracelets and magnetic car ribbons)
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To: Heartlander
It has been said that Natural Selection “… is empirically, that is, scientifically, meaningless, but it makes a pretty metaphor. It originated in a categorical error parading as an analogy. For the past 150 years, it has deluded unthinking simpletons into mistaking it for a real phenomenon, when it is nothing but a collective anthropomorphization of non-specified natural causes of mortality presented as a mystical, animist 'presence' possessing the intelligence and powers of discrimination necessary to make actual choices, i.e., 'selections'. As such it may be accurately summed up as a childish religious mystique, that is, as a superstition for the godless.” If the universe and humans are the happenstance result of a Blindwatchmaker, than “Natural Selection is the Blind Gameskeeper (he works on the Estate of the Blind Watchmaker), and he kills everything he catches. Natural Selection is a synonym for bad luck, misfortune, and getting the pointy end of the stick.”

'It has been said' is a nice denial of responsibility; but in the present case the passive voice is excusable, whoever said this was a simpleton, and I don't blame him for wanting anonymity. Natural selection is the way by which we look at how populations of organisms change. there is no other rational way to look at populations.

239 posted on 09/22/2005 8:34:43 PM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: Heartlander

So what's with the spamming?


240 posted on 09/22/2005 8:35:59 PM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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