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To: 4CJ
"The majority of your rant I'll simply ignore..."

I thought you would since you are locked into the neo-confederate invented version of history.

The states already possesed slavery.." (Which states?)

.."if that was all the Confederacy desired, all they had to do was rejoin and ratify Lincoln's 13th Amendment guaranteeing PERMANT slavery."

One can not 'rejoin' what one was never allowed to overthrow .

"Secondly, Lincoln did not wage war to end slavery"

First off Old Abe did not "wage war" but correctly reacted to a provoked insurrections triggered by political hacks for Slavery Inc.

The issue of Slavery was the paramount issue of the day in 1860, and the sole reason the Southern Slavocracy committed horrible acts of broad-based treason - for $$$$$ & additional power, never mind leaving this nation divided & potentially vulnerale to aggressive acts via European powers.

Lincoln was initially was driven to swiftly crush the so-called 'Confederate' rebellion. Many Northern and some numbers of Southern citizens wanted slavery ended as well, but not the traitors you back to this day. Starting a full scale civil war for the sake of keeping men in chains is our evil. Are you going to attempt to justify slavery as somehow being Biblically correct?

How does it feel knowing everyone in here, regardless of side, are fully cognizant you wanted men, women and even little kids to remain in a state of slavery. If you think Lincoln was a problem for your 'side' you would quickly believe him to be a saint, in relation to myself in his place, dealing with the treasonous promoters of the worst domestic slaughter in United States history. The instigators of the horror this nation was dragged into got off very lightly.

"Once again the Confederate states were not attempting to overthrow the government in Washington and make slaves out of yankees.}

Right, I forgot they only want to have little Southern picnics on the plantation porches and watch their own slaves bake in that rotten heat down there....

"How many people were killed in said attacks?"

At least you admit there were attacks on United States military installations and naval vessels, not to mention anybody living in the South was ruthlessly abused and many times gunned down if not in total accord with the 'Confederate' line.

"When did Congress declare war on the states doing so?" Why would the U.S. Congress declare war on U.S. states? That is insane.

"These "attacks" occurred while Congress was in session, why did they not declare war?"

Answered already. Furthermore the rebellion was addressed with the full military might of the American armed forces wherever acts of terrorism and subversion broke out during 1861 through 1865 and afterwards with the origins of the criminal Klan terrorism against Americans of all types.

"How can a fort 1000 miles away from a union state defend the union?"

The Union 'fort' or ships you speak of were part of the United States of America, no matter the location inside this nation, regardless of what a pack of traitors demanded.

Anyone who attempted or attempts today to destroy that Union, no matter the distance, will pay a heavy total, whether the criminal or terrorist element lurks in South Carolina, Berlin or Baghdad.

"When the US secedes from the UN, and Koffi refuse to depart, does China and France have the right to prevent the US from taking it back?"

First off, we should have withdrawn from the UN a long time ago. Secondly, if or when, in the future, American elected officials wake up and do indeed withdraw, Koffi, the Red Chinese and the Frogs better not even think about preventing anything on American soil.

"If UN troops seize US property would you consider that illegal?"

Naturally. You would not? We have UN troops already in portions of this country.

"Do you think that the US government can legislate against free speech and firearms ownership, despite the plain reading of the 1st and 2nd amendments?"

Of course, when confronting Islamic or other terrorists cells operating anywhere in America and determined to butcher millions of our citizens?

"Do you think that the US government can seize YOUR property and give it to private enterprise?"

You can thank the current men in black robes for that one. Hopefully with two new justices, soon to be on the bench, that incredible ruling will be overturned.

"Do you think that the US government can legislate God out of the public domaion?"

When there is blatant communist infiltration of all aspects of government they will attempt to legislate all kinds of immoral acts against the public good.

"Do you think that the US government can do anything it wants, as that as long as the courts find some international law (say Cuban) to justify their decision, that the court is right and YOU must abide by that decision?"

Why should the US government abide by international rulings promoted by our enemies?

"Do you think that the federal government can legally dole out billions and billions of dollars of 'pork', aid to foreign countries, or even give monies to individuals affected by disaster?"

Combating global terrorism should never be considered 'pork' unless the funds are being abused or stolen and in that case the funding should stop or administered by American or faith based groups contingent on types of aid. In terms of tax monies given to individuals affected by disaster, each individual cases needs to be reviewed - likes the potential hundreds of thousands of Hurricane Rita's wrath. Are you implying if your home was totally blown away by a hurricane, flood, earthquake, etc, you would refuse federal, state or city assistance to begin again?

"If Congress enacted a law that all handicapped, the elderly and infirm must be euthanized, and the courts agreed, would that said law would be legal?"

The Nazi bastards already sunk to that barbaric level. Don't think it can't happen again in the future, and in terms of being 'legal' it's like defending slave labour as somehow being 'legal', which the Nazis and the Southern Slaveocracy already attempted to pull.

"If no, would it be treason to fire on US forces attempting to seize your grandparents?"

It sounds like these grandparents are off their rockers LOL

Once again you have sickeningly demonstrated your total lack of respect for this nation in this "I don't know about you, but I agree with the founders, prefer not to give in to evil, and as Patrick Henry stated, 'give me liberty or give me death'. If your government can do the above with impunity, that's not government, that's tyranny."

Maybe now you know why slaves fought to be free men.


480 posted on 09/23/2005 11:17:30 AM PDT by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free)
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To: M. Espinola
you're in one word, PITIFUL.

and you aren't intelligent enough to be a FReeper. otoh, you'll make a GREAT DU-dummy. be GONE to DU!

free dixie,sw

483 posted on 09/23/2005 2:38:27 PM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: M. Espinola
Based on your answers to my questions regarding legislative, executive and court powers, you take the Ginsberg/Breyer liberal neocon position of a living Constitution. I, on the other hand, understand that IF the government needs more powers, it is the responsibility of the people of the several states to AMEND the Constitution.

In answer to your question ('if your home was totally blown away ... [would] you would refuse federal, state or city assistance to begin again?'], I would indeed. I have insurance paid for by me. IF I lived in a flood plain I would purchase flood insurance. Nowhere in our state or federal Constitution is the state or federal government authorized to reward stupidity.

I asked you a simple question, '"[i]f Congress enacted a law that all handicapped, the elderly and infirm must be euthanized, and the courts agreed, would that said law be legal?"' to which you refused to answer NO as any rational person would.

In response to my question, '"[i]f no, would it be treason to fire on US forces attempting to seize your grandparents?"', you replied, '[i]t sounds like these grandparents are off their rockers LOL'. Possibly you simply misunderstood the question in your haste to respond, so I'll rephrase the question and posit it again:

Given that Congress passes a law MANDATING euthanasia of the elderly or infirm, and YOUR parents or grandparents fall into the appropriate category, the federal authorities show up at their door to complete the process. Would it be treason to fire on said US forces attempting to seize your grandparents?
Either you have a liberal view of the Constitution and believe that the law must be valid because it was passed by Congress, OR you have a conservative view and believe the law invalid, as the power to do so was not delegated to the federal government.

A simple yes or no would suffice.

Now take that process one step further, the people of your state, including you elect representatives to a state convention, who then vote to secede from the US. Is that legal, or do you assert that the federal government can invade the state to force compliance? Or possibly, as Mac thinks, do you petition the Supreme Court for permission to leave?

491 posted on 09/24/2005 9:16:11 AM PDT by 4CJ (Tu ne cede malis!)
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