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To: 4CJ
When were these "alleged" crimes noted by Congress and prosecuted? Congress was fully aware of ALL such incidents, and REFUSED to take action against the seceding states.

Oh, I see. You believe no crimes were committed because...Congress refused to act [lol].

Crimes were committed against Federal installations and American citizens throughout the South, up to and including the attack on Ft. Sumner. BTW Congress did act after the Lincoln administration lit a fire under them. If the previous Federal government had lived up to its Constitutional responsibility many lives would have been saved (imo).

The states seceded via conventions, the governments being republican (representative) in form.

While Secession may have been Constitutional in theory, as carried out by the Confederates in 1860 it was illegal and treasonous.

What most of us are waiting for, is for you to post a power DELEGATED to the federal government to prevent secession

Secession in 1860 violated the USC in numerous ways. It was a violation of judicial power [Art III section 2], it was treasonous [Art III section 3], it was fraudulent [Art IV section 2], and downright criminal [Art III section 3].

Wow - a simple quote from the Bible - and you accuse me of being racist??????

Did I? I hadn't noticed. I thought I was simply pointing out how Holy Scripture has been used to support all kinds of behaviors, not just to condemn the "potty mouths". However, if you wish to wear your Christian Identity on your sleeve, so be it.

426 posted on 09/21/2005 7:41:10 AM PDT by mac_truck (Aide toi et dieu l’aidera)
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To: mac_truck
Oh, I see. You believe no crimes were committed because...Congress refused to act [lol].

No. I point out that Congress itself saw no illegal act, they refused to act because secession was legal.

If the previous Federal government had lived up to its Constitutional responsibility many lives would have been saved (imo).

Please document thsi alleged Constitutional responsibility to preserve the union.

While Secession may have been Constitutional in theory, as carried out by the Confederates in 1860 it was illegal and treasonous.

The governments in question were republican as required. Conventions were assembled, a vote was taken. The sovereign power of each state - a power higher than the legislature and Constitution - met, and voted to change their form of government. There is nothing illegal or treasonous about it. The Confederates publicy renounced their former allegiance to the federal republic, met in convention to creat a new one. They did not wage war on the federal government nor attempt to overthrow it - they exercised their God given right to self-government.

Secession in 1860 violated the USC in numerous ways. It was a violation of judicial power [Art III section 2] ...

Article III §2 The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls; to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party; to Controversies between two or more States; between a State and Citizens of another State; between Citizens of different States; between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects. [Later modified by Amendment XI]

In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.

The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.

Specifically what clause was violated?

... it was fraudulent [Art IV section 2]...

Article IV §2 The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime.

No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, But shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.

Specifically what clause was violated?

...and downright criminal [Art III section 3].

Article III §3 Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

Only citizens could be charged with treason - non citizens cannot. Citizens receive protection from their government - not attacked by it! The states absolved their allegiance to the federal republic. Not longer citizens, and only defending themselves from attack, they were not traitors, just as George Washington was not a traitor and stated 'they who had committed no fault wanted no pardon.'

However, if you wish to wear your Christian Identity on your sleeve, so be it.

When YOU can't win a debate this is your retort, to accuse someone of racism, of being a vile and despicible? You post like you're a member of the Taliban.

434 posted on 09/21/2005 8:57:24 AM PDT by 4CJ
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