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Warp Drive, When?
nasa ^ | 09/01/05

Posted on 09/01/2005 7:08:26 PM PDT by KevinDavis

A Look at the Scaling

The ideal interstellar propulsion system would be one that could get you to other stars as quickly and comfortably as envisioned in science fiction. Before this can become a reality, three scientific breakthroughs are needed: discovery of a means to exceed light speed, discovery of a means to propel a vehicle without propellant, and discovery of a means to power such devices. Why? - Because space is big, really, really, really big.

Space takes up a lot of space!

Interstellar distances are so astronomical (pun intended) that it is difficult to convey this expanse. Consider the following analogy: If the sun were the size of a typical, 1/2 inch diameter marble, the distance from the sun to the Earth, called an "Astronomical Unit (AU)" would be about 4 feet, the Earth would be barely thicker than a sheet of paper, and the orbit of the Moon would be about a 1/4 inch in diameter. On this scale, the closest neighboring star is about 210 miles away. That’s about the distance from Cleveland to Cincinnati.

(Excerpt) Read more at nasa.gov ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: hyperspace; nasa; podkletnov; space; warp
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Warp drive? Hyper drive? GET REAL, PEOPLE - that's all science fiction!

What we REALLY need to do is dig up a Stargåte somewhere…


21 posted on 09/01/2005 7:43:51 PM PDT by solitas (So what if I support an OS that has fewer flaws than yours? 'Mystic' dual 500 G4's, OSX.4.2)
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To: JustDoItAlways

Interesting, very interesting!


22 posted on 09/01/2005 7:47:45 PM PDT by Wiz
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To: KevinDavis

Who cares about the galaxy?

I have not even seen the grand canyon yet.


23 posted on 09/01/2005 7:50:51 PM PDT by Radix (FEMA's plan, move them from the Superdome to the Astrodome. Is that a great plan or what?)
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: KevinDavis
Could someone with a better understanding of relativity explain something for me?

If time slows for a traveler as he approaches the speed of light when viewed from an earthbound observer's perspective, wouldn't Earth-time appear to speed-up from the traveler's perspective? If the traveler got close enough to the speed of light to make it seem as if time had stopped, wouldn't millions of Earh-years pass for every second endured by the traveler? But from the traveler's perspective, wouldn't that journey of millions of Earth-years seem to be over in mere seconds, if not instantly?

25 posted on 09/01/2005 8:05:32 PM PDT by PUGACHEV
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To: KevinDavis
a means to propel a vehicle without propellant

I'm no engineer, but isn't this kind of a stupid statement?

26 posted on 09/01/2005 8:25:19 PM PDT by Hardastarboard
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To: PUGACHEV

As one approaches the speed of light one's mass increases. As mass increases the passage of time slows. This is a feature of the make up of space.

Accelerate a space craft at 1 gravity constant boost for about 290 days and you will achieve 99.9% the speed of light (186,281.999 mps). This is feasable in theory, but difficult in practice. At such a velocity time would pass very slowly aboard ship, and hence the length of time it would take for a ship to travel the 10 or so light years between our system and, let us say, Tau Ceti, would shrink to just a few months. So ... about a trip of about 10-11 years as observed from the Earth would only take about 2 and a half years for those aboard ship.

Do-able, in theory. In practice, difficult. The point is ... for short-range interstellar travel (under 100 light years) one really doesn't need hyper-light ability. Given current understanding of physics, it could be done. It would take a mastery of Fusion power generation and some kind of a "Bussard Ram Jet" to collect Hydrogen from the interstellar medium to use as fuel, but it could be done. And the travel time would only be a few years (at most), not decades.

One proposed method of faster than light travel that has been proposed in some academic papers has been to arrest the "mass increase" feature of relativistic physics. It's the increase of mass toward infinity which makes it impossible for space craft to travel faster than light because it is impossible to accelerate something with a mass of infinity. By arresting the mass increase function, it should be possible to continue accelerating past the speed of light. HOW to arrest mass increase should be a function of gravitational physics, so once we learn how to control gravity we really should be able to do it.


27 posted on 09/01/2005 8:30:14 PM PDT by TexasGreg ("Democrats Piss Me Off")
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To: ClaudiusI

That's why we hire SG-1!!!


28 posted on 09/01/2005 8:31:29 PM PDT by GreenLanternCorps ("Dude, you've got some... Arzt on you..." - Hugo "Hurley" Reyes)
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To: NicknamedBob

Actually, real soon now. Just after we achieve Godhood.
You mean like the Scientologists? Couldn't they be of some help?


29 posted on 09/01/2005 8:34:49 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: TexasGreg

Yeah, but the problem is you think you're gone for six months and when you come back the world is run by damn dirty apes...


30 posted on 09/01/2005 8:36:20 PM PDT by WestVirginiaRebel (Idiots and the Internet don't mix, no matter how hard Michael Moore tries.)
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To: PUGACHEV

Yes. My daughter is reading some book on all this. One other confounding factor is that mass increases with speed. As you approach the speed of light, your mass approaches infinity. I don't know how she gets this; it's just a brain smoker for me.


31 posted on 09/01/2005 8:38:27 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: TexasGreg

You think like my daughter.


32 posted on 09/01/2005 8:39:59 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: KevinDavis

After you die you can travel at the speed of thought.

Face it. We're stuck here. We won't even ever go to the moon again.


33 posted on 09/01/2005 8:41:56 PM PDT by mercy (never again a patsy for Bill Gates - spyware and viri free for over TWO YEARS now)
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To: metmom
"Couldn't they be of some help?"

Oh, I'm sure of it!

Do you want Travolta's number? You can be our emissary.

34 posted on 09/01/2005 8:43:08 PM PDT by NicknamedBob (I am impervious to insult, being extraordinarily dense, rather like Superman.)
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: cripplecreek

I like the gravity well idea. I've always theorized that if you cored the earth and jumped in, you would pass the center and keep going. Of course, you'd ultimately approach the other side of the earth and then get pulled back in.

The solution: Take an earth-sized planet (mars is close enough) and halve it like a grapefruit. Core the halves, aim the flat side in the direction you want your spacecraft to travel, and drop it in from the other side and you're on your way.

Haven't heard back from NASA on that yet.


36 posted on 09/01/2005 8:47:37 PM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Hardastarboard

Awkwardly phrased perhaps, but not stupid.

"a means to move a vehicle (in space) without propellant"

may convey the meaning better.

Consider slingshot maneuvers. Efficient, but no propellant consumed, just pure gravity-boosting.

Or other schemes, such as solar sails.


37 posted on 09/01/2005 8:50:11 PM PDT by NicknamedBob (I am impervious to insult, being extraordinarily dense, rather like Superman.)
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To: Larry Lucido

I was thinking more along the lines of a mini black hole but NASA hasn't gotten back to me yet either.


38 posted on 09/01/2005 8:50:54 PM PDT by cripplecreek (If you must obey your party, may your chains rest lightly upon your shoulders.)
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To: KevinDavis
Why do we need it when CNN says we can already go....


39 posted on 09/01/2005 8:53:42 PM PDT by RckyRaCoCo ("When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk!")
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To: KevinDavis
The immediate challenge is not developing "warp drive"- but to invent an efficient means of converting electrical or thermal energy into kinetic energy. To use the "Star Trek" metaphor, we need to invent the impulse engines before we start work on the warp drive.
I don't laugh at the idea- in the past, serious scientists have pooh-poohed such radical ideas as the air brake, the electric light, heavier-than-air flight, and space travel.
A ship with the range to reach Proxima Centauri shouldn't be much more complicated than an Ohio-class submarine, if a drive system can be developed. A solar sail could augment the drive at the beginning of the journey and provide braking upon return.
40 posted on 09/01/2005 8:54:50 PM PDT by Ostlandr (NeopaganNeocon)
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