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Brits to get RFID-chipped license plates
engadget.com ^ | Aug 9, 2005, 9:15 AM ET | Barb Dybwad

Posted on 08/23/2005 5:18:35 PM PDT by teaser

The British government is preparing to test new high-tech license plates containing microchips capable of transmitting unique vehicle identification numbers and other data to readers more than 300 feet away.

Officials in the United States say they'll be closely watching the British trial as they contemplate initiating their own tests of the plates, which incorporate radio frequency identification, or RFID, tags to make vehicles electronically trackable.

(Excerpt) Read more at engadget.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: 1984; bigbrother; britian; chip; donutwatch; england; government; govwatch; londoncalling; microchip; rfid; spychip; uk
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To: Tench_Coxe
If people cannot be reasonably secure in their persons, or their property, then perhaps it is time to disolve the current bonds of government and form another to secure their rights.

Sorry, you do not have the rights in your car as you do in your home. Try having sex in your car in a parking lot and see what happens. Besides, the 9th ammendment is a very poor choice as a supporter.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

This would mean that labels on mattresses are unconstitutional, as are billboards, neon lights, stuffed animals and handheld games. The ONLY thing that an RFID system does, is automate what could be tracked manually. That's it, and nothing more.

61 posted on 08/23/2005 8:52:25 PM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, come Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: WideGlide
Red light camera operators have already been found to have teamed with "States" to shorten yellow lights at particularly profitable intersections.

Ummm, again, do you 'know this', or really wish this were true. There are thousands of traffic engineers who's job is to time lights, regulate traffic and save lives.

The Institute of Transportation Engineers (ITE) and Federal Highway Administration provide guidance on signal timing, and two primary approaches prevail. Engineers can either employ a uniform value for the length of yellow change intervals, based on ITE formulas, or set the timing for each intersection individually to take into account factors such as geometry and traffic speeds. These approaches are backed by volumes of engineering studies, and to question them is to take on the whole community of transportation engineers and literature published by ITE and others.

Link

62 posted on 08/23/2005 8:57:13 PM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, come Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: Hodar
So, how does letting a scanner read that your car filled up at 7-11 on 6th Avenue impact your rights? Anyone who wants to know can SEE you doing this.

Well, I do not know about rights but I can certainly see the abuse of it. After a couple of criminals get arrested in this way, they will find a way around it quick enough (It is 2005 and car theft is still going like gangbusters).

My big fear since this information will be available period, it will also be available for crooks as we have seen with identity thefts lately which government databases have helped with tremendously. It would also be great for thiefs who could track when people go to work and rip off their house when they are gone. I am sure private investigators would love it.

As is usual with this kind of stuff it will be sold as a crime fighting tool but in fact will mainly be used against innocents (new ways to raise taxes, track children out too late). In that sense it is like requiring the registring of guns.

Bottom line, if the data does not exist we are all safer.
63 posted on 08/23/2005 9:00:19 PM PDT by microgood
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To: Hodar

Source - Common Sense

It is a right, clearly if you take away the ability to drive you severely restrict mobility and economic freedom in this society. As to your whys -
The reason for speed limits it to keep people from exceeding the safe speed for an area with which they are not familiar. In Kalifornia, the speed limit cannot be set below the speed at which 85 percent of the traffic travels. Many states to not have insurance requirements, safety checks or eye checks. Even tests are a fairly recent pheonomena. I think if you really look into it, licensing only exists to spread government control and to exact money from the public.

Most illegals here in the PRK do not have drivers licenses, their accident rate is identical to those who do.

Drivers licenses are only required for law abiding citizens, the rest don't bother.

The real fact is the government can tell you it is a privilege and as long as you agree, so it is.


64 posted on 08/23/2005 9:04:09 PM PDT by Rodentking (There is no God but Yahweh and Moses is his prophet - http://www.airpower.blogspot.com/)
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To: teaser

666?????


65 posted on 08/23/2005 9:06:35 PM PDT by -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-
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To: Rodentking
Many states to not have insurance requirements, safety checks or eye checks.

Sources? Please list ONE state without insurance, safety or eye checks. Do actually believe this stuff you are spouting? A state is going to give a driver's license to a legally blind person with $10 in their pocket?

Sorry, 'Common Sense' is not considered a source. Accident rate of illegals is the same as everyone else? I think State Farm, GEICO, All State and others would beg to disagree. How many other 'facts' can you invent to back up this claim? Just wanting something to be true, does not make it true.

66 posted on 08/23/2005 9:20:49 PM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, come Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: Hodar
Ummm, again, do you 'know this', or really wish this were true. There are thousands of traffic engineers who's job is to time lights, regulate traffic and save lives.

In Montgomery County, MD the yellow light at a camera-monitored intersection was found to have been reduced to 3 seconds when the county standard is a minimum of 4 second yellow. I won't even get into the questionable practice of the State assuming guilt until you prove your innocense.

Go get a cheeseburger Hodar. While you still can.

67 posted on 08/23/2005 9:32:18 PM PDT by WideGlide (That light at the end of the tunnel might be a muzzle flash.)
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To: Hodar
You do not have the right to drive, you never have had that right, nor are you likely to see the Constitution ammended to get it added to the Bill of Rights.

You need to learn more about how our Constitution works. The Constituton does not enumerate rights -- it lists limits on government power.

68 posted on 08/23/2005 9:44:10 PM PDT by ellery (The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedience, and by parts. - Edmund Burke)
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To: Hodar

You have made a despicable and false accusation.

I see that you missed civics and civil discourse in your instruction on the duties and rights of citizens.


69 posted on 08/23/2005 9:48:01 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: Hodar
Just because you may not like something...

I don't like it, and any "Safety" or "Protection" it offered us will surely be defeated by the criminal. Heck, I'll bet it could be defeated easily by anyone. A little story: Record companies came out with an "uncopiable" CD about 2 or 3 years ago. The copy protection was a small data track placed on the CD before the audio track. When placed into a CD-recorder, the computer or copying device would recognize it as a Data CD and only copy the data portion when the user attempted to access it. Well, This technology was defeated by using a black magic marker to cover the data track. They spent millions on something that was easily defeated with a 99 cent sharpie.

If you love this so much, go ahead.. volunteer yourself.

I don't like it, and I am sure there would be an inexpensive method of defeating it, and that is what I would do.
70 posted on 08/23/2005 10:04:55 PM PDT by lmr (Thanks to tet68, this tagline has been updated)
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To: diverteach
Who do you think is going to get the ticket in the mail?

Silly argument. If you loan your car to somebody now and the cops get the plates number they'll trace it to you anyway.
71 posted on 08/24/2005 5:51:25 AM PDT by BJClinton (Billy Jack: One tin moonbat rides away)
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To: Hodar

>>I failed to see where the RFID prevented you from going ANYWHERE. Your same arguement would apply to simply putting a unique number on a license plate, and then publically displaying it. The only difference (and the ONLY difference) is that instead of relying upon an optical device to monitor license plates, we are using RF technologies. So, somehow using RFID is a violation of your 'rights', but publically displaying your license plate isn't?<<

I was actually responding to a whole mindset, not just RFID. However, to respond to what you are saying let me just say the difference is degree of invasion of privacy. Let me give an example:
Let us assume that you try to keep your speed down for multiple reasons. First, you want to obey the law. Second, you want to drive safely. Third, you don't want to get a ticket. Of course from time to time everyone speeds accidentally. If you do it at just the wrong time, you get a ticket. It happened to my wife a year ago. Her first ticket in 51 years and a total fluke. It was a revenue generator for the city of bellevue (very low speed limit for the road and hard to spot speed limit sign) and the motorcycle cop was giving her a ticket and didn't even want to discuss it - he had to get out there to write more.

OK, now imagine that there is ALWAYS a cop sitting in the car with you and just waiting for you to break the limit. Would that add to your driving stress? That is basically the system we are working towards in the future - A virtual cop sitting in your car just waiting to nail you for speeding, bald tires, not wearing your seat belt, poluting (your check engine light comes on and they know it - OBD III), etc. That is not an appropriate way to treat adult human beings.

They can make the case that things would be "safer." But if we allowed the cops to just barge in and search houses for drugs and bad stuff from time to time, we would all be safer as well. Our founding fathers understood the concept of personal freedom from "random" government scrutiny. In fact the foundation upon which our constitution rests is the concept of individual freedom.

I even turn off the GPS on my cell phone. I like my privacy, And I will not give it up to get a little more security. I supply my own security, thank you. Cops are just secretaries with guns - and tax collectors.


72 posted on 08/24/2005 9:33:56 AM PDT by RobRoy (Child support and maintenance (alimony) are what we used to call indentured slavery)
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To: bgnn32

I mainly bicycle commute.


73 posted on 08/24/2005 9:37:09 AM PDT by RobRoy (Child support and maintenance (alimony) are what we used to call indentured slavery)
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To: Hodar
The Canadian eskimos were required to where an ID number on their neck (like dog tags). They didn't own these necklaces, they were owned by the State.

What are your thoughts on these IDs?

Was it right to require them?

Who owns them?

74 posted on 08/24/2005 9:52:43 AM PDT by Bear_Slayer (Montani semper liberi !)
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To: diverteach
You loan your car to someone who commits a traffic violation picked up by the RFID. Who do you think is going to get the ticket in the mail?

How is that any different than what happens now without chips?

75 posted on 08/24/2005 9:58:21 AM PDT by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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To: Bear_Slayer
What are your thoughts on these IDs?
Was it right to require them?
Who owns them?

Depends upon what the purpose was. Was it to identify these individuals for special services (free food or privileges not extended to anyone else), or was this like the Germans requiring the Jews to wear the Star of David?

You do not own your driver's license, it remains the property of the state in which it is issued. You may be asked to surrender it upon conviction of certain crimes (DWI, for instance).

How does this change anything? You presently (and very likely have since birth) have a unique set of numbers and letters on the back of your vehicle. Your vehicle also has a VIN; with your name attached to it. All the RFID does is make getting this information easier, that's it.

This system does not monitor speed, who is in your car, where you are going, how reckless you drive, what music you wear, how much you weigh, who you associate with, nor does anyone really care, If someone is looking for your vehicle, and a RFID detector 'finds' your car at some stop-light; you can be found.

For example, you FOOLISHLY disable your cell phone GPS and have an accident. You call 911 and say "I've had a wreck, and I'm dying"; so what can they do? No GPS on your cell, so the call could have come from a very wide region. If your RFID was matched on some road, at least they have a clue where to send the ambulance.

We also can do some quick tracking of stolen cars, cars used in a crime, tracking drug dealers, coorelating cars at crime scenes where the criminal isn't apprehended (the snipers come to mind). Just like the cameras, they do not prevent you from doing anything; but some cowardly rag-heads are now apprehended in Great Britian after blowing up some buses. If not for these cameras, how many more people would be dead?

76 posted on 08/24/2005 11:46:32 AM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, come Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: WideGlide

If it gets to that point then I agree that is too far, but I don't see it getting there, and a licence plate is property of the state they can track it how they see fit.


77 posted on 08/24/2005 2:45:56 PM PDT by bgnn32
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To: bgnn32
and a licence plate is property of the state they can track it how they see fit.

How do you like the taste of that "State" Koolaid? As long as you continue to drink it you'll get more.

78 posted on 08/24/2005 7:10:58 PM PDT by WideGlide (That light at the end of the tunnel might be a muzzle flash.)
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To: Hodar
"Sorry, you do not have the rights in your car as you do in your home. Try having sex in your car in a parking lot and see what happens. Besides, the 9th ammendment is a very poor choice as a supporter."

I don't expect a straightfoward answer, but I do have a simple question: What rights do you think an American has once they step out of their home?

79 posted on 08/24/2005 8:46:34 PM PDT by Tench_Coxe
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To: Hodar

Since our system was designed to put limits on GOVERNMENT, NOT on We, the People, our so-called "representatives," who usually only represent themselves and their own ambition to control us, do NOT have the authority to convert RIGHTS to PRIVILEGES by requiring some sort of government wastepaper to do something which is none of their business if we do or not. Barring the use of force or fraud to gain something, whatever peaceable activity we choose to pursue, INCLUDING driving down the road, is not the business of government, PERIOD.

Since you choose to think otherwise, it is up to you to show where a particular authority is granted to government by the Constitution and is not simply and wrongfully assumed by it.


80 posted on 08/24/2005 9:17:33 PM PDT by dcwusmc ("The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who is able to think things out for himself.)
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