Posted on 08/21/2005 6:02:36 AM PDT by CholeraJoe
"Never, ever leave home without it." No, not your American Express card, your sidearm.
This morning, I woke up about 4:15 and was hungry, so I decided to drive to the local 24-hour beanery. The only other customers were a table of 10, intoxicated 20-somethings making alot of noise.
There were 7 muscular young men and three loud-mouthed young women. After listening to their raucous laughter for 10 minutes, I politely asked the waitress to ask them to hold down the noise. All I wanted to do was eat my breakfast in relative peace.
Her request for quiet lasted about 45 seconds, then the noise and laughter resumed. At that point, I decided to do something.
Bear in mind that I am not an imposing figure. I'm 5'9", mid 50's, and slim. I walked over to the table, and walked completely around it twice. I said, "I'd like y'all to hold down the noise for a while, please." One of the young men started to give me trash-talk but within seconds was elbowed by the guy next to him, who whispered something in his ear. Then everyone at the table said, "Yes, sir, or OK."
What made the difference? Open carry. I was wearing a 9mm semi-auto on my right hip. I never touched it and I made no threats, but it was nevertheless visible.
Find me a LE agency that would enforce drunk & disorderly in a diner without a complaint from staff, and I'll consider the diner "public" for the purposes of our discussion.
never knew I was so loved...sniff.
Sounds like a case of Napoleon Syndrome.
Open carry is LEGAL in his state....right? Isf so, how can this be considered brandishing?
It's not what you think that matters. And I'm not a "bootlicker" either. I carry often as well, but I also know that I have to protect myself with more than my sidearm. I have to protect myself from litgation. I'm sure you will contribute handsomely to CJ's defense fund however. In my case, it cost me a small fortune just to stand my ground and get a poacher convicted. Many times I had to fly from work just to sit in a court only to see the case remanded time and time again.
Yes! By definition!
As for "intimidating someone with a weapon", that is BS. You didn't draw down on them. You don't give up the right to a little peace and quiet simply because you are armed.
Of course, if you were a cop, those same posters would not be accusing you of "intimidating someone with a weapon", since in their minds cops are superior to "average citizens". Quite the contrary, they'd be having orgasms over the "brave police officer" that enforced their will.
I think you did good. This country needs more folks like you willing to confront problems directly.<<
WTF?
CJ if he had used his weapon, he would be in HELL for years, encouraged by morons like you. CJ's personal situation is not supported by law (that I've seen) and you support using the appearance of a gun to support noise problems between people?
It is not the bootlicking phantasms of the ridiculous nuts, but the tongue wagging from too many anti psychotics to worry about.
If CJ shot someone, you would not be in his corner. His defense attorney would beg you to go to the opposite side of the earth. Why should he listen to you under those conditions?
DK
"Switzerland is one of the most polite countries on the planet - and yes, everybody is armed. - by LAW."
That's a push. Every household is required to have a rifle, and they do. It's an ancient law and meant to arm the entire country in case of invasion. Problem is, many people can't even find their guns, it's been so long since they had them out.
Don't display a gun for show, unless the situation may reasonably require it's use.
Anything anything else and you WILL LOSE every thing you own or will own. It WILL destroy your future.
Ask a Lawyer.
DK
Seems like you are fundamentally against open carry. Now I would have ignored the loud kids unless they became a threat to me. But it is pretty clear they were on the way to becoming a threat, when the gun on his belt stopped them well short of that.
You say there SHOULD be a rule against open carry in these kinds of situations. I HOPE you are aware how impractical that would be.
Everybody modifies their behavior around people who are armed. That includes police, the potentially thuggish, and just us normal people. Most people think it is a change for the better.
Telling Joe to be more discreet or tolerant is fine. Making this an argument against open carry is ridiculous.
Now that's a big assumption....
While we are assuming....Let's assume this group of revelers happened to be real dangerous..and you and your family were eating at this establishment.... Imagine them attempting to harm your wife or child... Wouldn't you be thankful for the good citizen with the sidearm willing to intercede?
"I am sick and tired of individuals believing they have a right to make life miserable for everyone around them. We seem to have lost all sense of control and decency. The world does not revolve around just YOU."
Get over yourself/quit being a fuddy duddy. There are very few on this thread--or this forum--who can't remember being a little rowdy with friends when they were teenagers or early 20-somethings--it's actually developmental behavior that's seen in EVERY generation. Man's first words: "Those kids are too noisy."
As for the gasoline ideas...thanks, very useful!
If you really expect peace and quiet at 4:30 AM in a diner that 20-somethings go to after a night of clubbing, YOU'RE not being logical.
Yeah, but the question is, did Joe?
CA....
Personally, I like a good fist fight, so I'd hand my side arm to my wife and say, "hold this" and go kick some ass.
I know it didn't happen. I just was wondering the what if (seeing how gang activity is so rampid) of 2 guns if there would be a shootout over waffles.
"Just a thought for some of the other Freepers on this post: Do you think England would be having such a problem w/ their youth if law abiding citizens were permitted to carry? I would really hate to have the kids in the US morph into the kids (punks) in the UK who seem to have the run of the place."
Just a thought for those who cite pointless examples: Our youth violence and death rate is exponentially larger than England's.
Just a note about your tagline...if you plan on a best seller, you might want to correct the spelling in the title (i.e., cemetery).
You're going to upset Joe if you keep that up!!
Sorry, Joe.......gotta side with the critics on this one. It was over the top.
I'm 5'8", 185+ (no, not fat either), and I neither carry nor even own a gun. I've never had a need for one. I have had to confront people before and I've never even had to take a swing. Demeanor and confidence (not to mention manners) can take you a long way in the overwhelming majority of cases.
As someone else pointed out, you more than likely wouldn't have done this if you hadn't been armed. That sidearm doesn't make the man, my friend. It's purely for self defense. Your comment about how many times your wearing it has saved your bacon tells me a lot. Most of us don't go looking for trouble. Either you live in a particularly dangerous area (which is possible, I suppose), or you have unwittingly allowed that weapon on your hip to affect your attitude.
Be very careful, and please re-evaluate your attitude towards being an armed citizen........for YOUR own sake.
I haven't seen DK make that argument at all. In his story, and his title, Joe indicated that he used his gun to quiet a table of loud laughers. By his own account, it was the gun that quieted them. By his own account, he circled the table twice. We may be jumping to a conclusion here, but I think he pretty strongly implied that the purpose of his circling was to show his hardware to the laughing people. We can split hairs all we want about whether, under Montana law this was "brandishing," but the bottom line is that (again, by Joe's own account) he used a gun to enforce - what? Manners? That's more than a little bit crazy, whether or not the legal consequences would be as severe as some have suggested (although I think they very well could be.)
You don't threaten (and, please, let's stop pretending that deliberately showing your gun is not at least an implied threat) with a gun unless you are going to use it. I just don't think there is any way on earth Joe would have shot those kids if they'd kept on laughing loudly - even if they were laughing at him. This is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a debate about RKBA - it's about simple, adult, good judgment.
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