Posted on 08/21/2005 6:02:36 AM PDT by CholeraJoe
"Never, ever leave home without it." No, not your American Express card, your sidearm.
This morning, I woke up about 4:15 and was hungry, so I decided to drive to the local 24-hour beanery. The only other customers were a table of 10, intoxicated 20-somethings making alot of noise.
There were 7 muscular young men and three loud-mouthed young women. After listening to their raucous laughter for 10 minutes, I politely asked the waitress to ask them to hold down the noise. All I wanted to do was eat my breakfast in relative peace.
Her request for quiet lasted about 45 seconds, then the noise and laughter resumed. At that point, I decided to do something.
Bear in mind that I am not an imposing figure. I'm 5'9", mid 50's, and slim. I walked over to the table, and walked completely around it twice. I said, "I'd like y'all to hold down the noise for a while, please." One of the young men started to give me trash-talk but within seconds was elbowed by the guy next to him, who whispered something in his ear. Then everyone at the table said, "Yes, sir, or OK."
What made the difference? Open carry. I was wearing a 9mm semi-auto on my right hip. I never touched it and I made no threats, but it was nevertheless visible.
No argument there but (without circling the table twice) there should be no problem asking them to quiet down.
If things escalate, at least of what I know in Virgina, there is still a requirement to de-escalate and retreat. If that fails then all bets are off.
The loony Libertarian in me says "Let them have 'em!".
The prospective father thinks "Screw that."
On a vaguely related note:
My father is a convicted felon whose rights have not been restored. He gets really mad when I say that if he can't have guns they shouldn't have let him out.
He also gets mad when I say that I'd rather he had is .22 Marlin back than get a chance to vote for a Leftist Democrat.
What got you some peace and quiet where you live would have almost certianly gotten you killed in a lot other places, like Compton.
Being loud is not being disorderly. Are they disrupting the business's ability to do business? Puking at the front door...confronting potential patrons...etc. They were paying customers, at a table, being too loud, for you sensibilities.
If you were to use your concealed weapon, after they claimed it was obviously revealed to intimidate (from their viewpoint), for a minor disagreement, you will lose in court.
You will be charged for a criminal offense. You will be sued for everything you will ever have the possibility of owning and your life will never be a happy one from that day forward.
This has a point, the saying "An armed society is a polite one." is moderated by "It is better to be judged by twelve than carried by six." The latter intones the gravity of responsibility for concealed carry.
Guns are for life and death decisions. I could possibly extend that to some vital property issues.
I would NEVER extend it to being loud. If you don't like the establishment's ambiance, find a better one. Let the owner know.
DK
Got to guard against those people who go postal, y'know.
Why does that remind me of a Texas Armadillo?
It's a small town. Safeway opens at 8, the 2 Albertson's open at 6.
BTTT
That kind of attitude got within one Justice of banning the Boy Scouts.
I agree... Same as smoking. If the proprietor wants to serve smokers in his establishment, then fine. He should have a sign posted that this is a business that accepts smokers. Do not enter unless you understand this....
GOD MADE MAN , SAM COLT MADE IDIOTS WITH GUNS @ 4:30AM GO TO THE LOCAL BEANERY . DON'T TRY THAT IN BALTIMORE @ 4:30 AM .. .. ..
Well, I have to leave this fascinating thread to get ready to go to church. It really torques my jaw that I can't carry my weapon into our church building. You can't imagine how many rude people there are in there. If I could open carry, you bet those people behind me would carry that fussy baby to "crying room". The circling part would be awkward, but I would manage it somehow. I mean, I have a right!!!
You need to rethink this.
Self defense is only justified if you are the victim. Sitting in a restaurant with loud patrons disturbing your quite does not make you a victim. In this case you complain to the manager, pay your bill and leave.
If after the waitress asked the group to be quiet, one or more of the men got up and approached CJ, then he may feel he was in danger. But that is not the case.
CJ approached the group himself, he was the aggressor.
Now let us pick up where one or more of the men in the group was too drunk to be intimated by his display, and got up to face off with him. Suppose one or more thought their live was in danger because they did not have a gun, and some stranger approaches and tells them to shut up?
Let us say someone does something stupid, CJ misinterprets their action pulls his gun and shoots someone. Who is at fault?
If I was on the jury CJ would be going to jail.
I am not a lawyer, but I do not believe you can be an aggressor and then claim self defense, when it would be just as easy to leave the restaurant.
If CJ can be so easily annoyed by the stupid behavior of others, perhaps he should not carry a weapon but that is a decision only he can make, and one that may end up costing him more then he expects.
It wasn't concealed. My state allows open carry. It was no more obtrusive than my bald head, and smaller.
Allen was the type that could.
There's this little Christian thing called "charity" y'know. It really gets in the way of our big egos.
With the SLIGHT difference that your bald head could never kill anybody.
Yep that's who I'm talkin' 'bout. LOL
It was no more obtrusive than my bald head, and smaller.
For example, the next guy who walks into his place with a sidearm on his hip is going to be less welcome than you were.
Face it, you screwed up, and hopefully learned a lesson from it that you can pass on to others, including many in this forum.
I once went to an all-night diner in Fort Worth, Texas called The Pink Pony with my wife and one of her friends, and all I can say is I'm glad you weren't there, because everyone in the place was drunk and rowdy, including the three of us. The management didn't mind, as a matter of fact they expected it. It was 1:00 AM on Sunday morning...
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