Posted on 08/16/2005 4:20:27 PM PDT by Shermy
The Brazilian electrician mistakenly killed by police in the aftermath of the second London bombings was being restrained by an officer before he was shot eight times as he was sitting on a Tube train, it emerged tonight.
Witness statements and photographs from an independent police investigation leaked to ITV News also show that Jean Charles de Menezes did not run away from police at Stockwell Tube station in South London and was wearing only a denim jacket before he was shot dead on July 22.
The evidence contradicts claims from the Metropolitan Police at the time that the Brazilian’s "clothing and his behaviour at the station added to their [officers’] suspicions", that he vaulted the ticket barrier and was wearing a heavy overcoat, which could have concealed a bomb.
It also emerged that one of the undercover team keeping Senhor de Menezes’s home under surveillance was relieving himself instead of filming the operation, so officers could not tell if they had tracked down one of the alleged bombers.
His advice was "it would be worth someone else having a look" to ensure they had the right man. No other officer apparently did take a picture of him even though he had to take a bus journey to the station.
Even so, Gold Command at the Yard which was running this operation, declared a "code red" and handed responsibility to CO19 - the firearms team. The armed team had been given photographs of the alleged bombers, yet no one realised that Senhor de Menezes bore no resemblance to any of those men.
The investigation report states that the firearms unit of the police had been told that "unusual tactics" may be required and if they "were deployed to intercept a subject and there was an opportunity to challenge, but if the subject was non compliant, a critical shot may be taken."
CCTV footage clearly shows that Senhor de Menezes was wearing a thin denim jacket so he could not be concealing a bomb and nor was he carrying any bag.
Far from running to avoid police who were tailing him, the electrician did not realise anyone was following him. He used his season ticket and did not vault the barrier. He only began to run when he saw a train pull into the station and as many commuters do he quickened his pace to catch it.
At this point a surveillance officer guided four armed police into the same carriage in which Senhor de Menezes took his seat.
A man sitting opposite him is quoted as saying: "Within a few seconds I saw a man coming into the double doors to my left. He was pointing a small black handgun towards a person sitting opposite me.
"He pointed the gun at the right hand side of the man's head. The gun was within 12 inches of the man's head when the first shot was fired."
The report also reveals for the first time that a member of the surveillance team, who sat nearby, got involved and grabbed Senhor de Menezes before he was shot: "I heard shouting which included the word ‘police’ and turned to face the male in the denim jacket.
"He immediately stood up and advanced towards me and the CO19 officers …I grabbed the male in the denim jacket by wrapping both my arms around his torso, pinning his arms to his side.
"I then pushed him back onto the seat where he had been previously sitting … I then heard a gun shot very close to my left ear and was dragged away onto the floor of the carriage."
Photographs showed how Senhor de Menezes was shot at virtually point blank range as he was still in his seat. A coroner said he was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder.
Mark Oaten, Home Affairs Spokesman for the Liberal Democrats, said: "If true, these preliminary findings will create obvious concerns. It is in the best interests of the police and the community for the full report and any recommendations, to be published as quickly as possible."
Chaos theory 101 ;-)
And the police never screw up? What would it take for you to admit that this was a mistake. He didn't run from the police, was not told to stop, did not vault a turnstile, but was simply tackled and shot 7 times. It was a case a mistaken identity.
Do you also support the cop (FBI agent) that shot an innocent man outside of Baltimore a few years back. Another case of mistaken identity. All witnesses agreed the guy had his hands out of the car, but the agent put a bullet in him.
Respecting the police has nothing to do with it. Everyone makes mistakes and many times they are inexcusably stupid. In this case the guy who was supposed to be video tape the guys leaving the apartment was taking a leak.
Sounds like we've been had, suckered by police trying to cover their rear ends.
They haven't released it. Notice they don't release the tapes, just frames. That helps conceal their reach, range and location.
It doesn't matter if he was restrained. They thought they had a bomber on their hands. He had to surrender or die. He didn't make the smart choice.
ITV was given documents from the police investigation. They have a nice big photo of the man lying on the train dead. He was not wearing a bulky jacket. They showed excerpts and quotes from witnesses and policemen's statements. Scotland Yard is not commenting at this point (although Sir Ian Blair was pretty quick to comment the day the man was shot).
What do you think? I think the truth will come out and it doesn't matter if it has a URL or not. This story is so far an ITV exclusive (the London Times is simply reporting what they saw on the telly like everyone else did tonight). More will come out in the following days, you can bet your bottom dollar.
He was given no chance to surrender. The police ran onto the train and shot the guy. The guy apparently didn't even know he was being followed.
No. It would be a bungled identification unless the target was missed and another person took the bullet. If they shot the fellow they intended to shoot, the shooting was not bungled.
Civilians in the UK don't have guns. There's a law.
The TSA is looking for small items that might be useful as weapons. The size and bulk of a suicide bomber vest is much much bigger and more bulky than what the TSA is looking for. The typical suicide bomber vest is a few inches thick and probably covers a hundred or more square inches (10 x 10 inch) of the wearer.
Initial reports were that the guy was wearing a bulky coat, which is consistent with trying to conceal a bulky bomb device. I haven't seen any pictures of what the guy was wearing, so have no idea of its efficacy at concealing a bomb that could take out most of the occupants of a subway car. I do recall lots of reports that describe the bombs as backkpack size, and that would be hard to conceal under a jean jacket.
The TSA, on the other hand, is looking for zippo lighters, BIC lighters, small knives or screwdrivers, nail files, etc. That stuff is easy to conceal in a dress shirt even, no coat required at all.
I see an inconsistency here.
I think there is a reason for the inconsistency, where the reason is generally related to the concealability of the "contraband" or suspected object. The British cops have asserted they believed the guy had a bomb that could take out many people. That belief justifies terminating the target. The question then is whether or not that belief was reasonable. Personally, I figure a fat person could more easily be (mis)taken to be packing 10 pounds of high explosives and 15 pounds of nails.
Well, not legally, anyway. 'Course, I would suspect a fella waving a gun around anywhere as not being particularly law-abiding.
People seem to be stubbornly clinging to their preconcieved notions, don't they?
I was one of those who thought this man, though innocent, might bear some responsiblity because of his own actions (suspicious clothing, jumping the turnstile, running from police who identified themselves, etc.) With all of that "evidence" now in doubt (even directly contradicted) it seems even clearer that this was a case of overzealousness and incompetence. I can still see the point of view of the police and understand how this overzealousness can occur given the events of a few days earlier but that doesn't excuse what seems to be a massive mistake that killed an innocent man who seems to have done nothing particularly wrong that day. I think we can all admit a big mistake was made. If this new evidence is true, it's a more inexcusable mistake than it first appeared.
I believe the police. Why don't you?
Also came out of the same apartment house as the bad guys, wore a coat on a hot day, lept the turnstyle etc.
And on top of that the guy was later found to have forged passport stamps etc so he was invovled in a little more than the press let on.
Did you even read the article? The only thing he did "wrong" apparently was walk out of the apartment house that was under surveillance. He did *not* leap the turnstile (he used a prepaid card) and he was not wearing a "coat on a hot day". He was wearing a lightweight denim jacket on a 65 degree morning.
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