Victims may have died before crash( Passengers frozen solid! )

CNN ^ | 08/15/2005 | CNN

[devane617]

ATHENS, Greece (CNN) -- Investigators were working to determine why a Cypriot plane apparently suffered a catastrophic loss of cabin pressure and slammed into a Greek mountain -- possibly with all 121 people on board already dead. All but two of the bodies have been recovered, a Greek government spokesman said Monday, and officials hope autopsies and cockpit recorders will hold clues to Sunday's crash of Helios Airways Flight 522. The autopsies were ordered to determine if the 115 passengers and six crew were already dead or oxygen-starved before the crash, the spokesman said. A Greek Defense Ministry source with access to the investigation told Reuters that most of the bodies recovered were "frozen solid."

[Zavien Doombringer]

worked in C-5s at Dover. Walked into the "boiler room" many times :)

[mewzilla]

Take pity please, I got a C in physics :) But would decrompression take longer to occur if there was a small hole rather than say something bigger, like a door had blown out?

[Zavien Doombringer]

It could have been... I guess we don't know.

I do know everything would have been ok until they reached above 8000MSL,

[pa mom]

I'm not sure of the exact flying time, but Cyrus and Athens are pretty far apart. Even to fly to Crete it is over an hour from Athens. Probably about 2 1/2 or 3 hour flight.

[Paradox]

The hull would have to be breached for the people to freeze solid. I just don't believe it.

Here is what I believe is likely. The people probably "froze to death", but not solid, however the bodies were probably extremely cold and some of them perhaps rigid, causing the first folks there to declare them "frozen solid". So its probably an exaggeration of the moment thing.

[Mike Darancette]

Blame Mr. Freeze

[Zavien Doombringer]

The Aircraft has many small holes, most we try to patch. Pressurization of an aircraft isn't about regulating the air going in, it's about the air going out. You can't increase the flow of air into the cabin, only regulate what goes out. It's about volume.

[IMAO-Podcast]

"And of course, this is Bush's fault."

If only the liberal superheroes, "People Intending to Negate Corporate Oppression" or the PINCOs, were there to keep Bush from crashing the plane!

You can hear the whole thing at:

http://www.imaopodcast.com/podcast/IMAO-Aug15.mp3

It's Freeper Friendly/Work Safe comedy (and best of all you don't need an iPod to listen)!

[Heatseeker]

Just checked - couldn't find distance for Larnica but Nicosia is 568.11 miles from Athens. Further than I thought.

[Steve_Seattle]

"I'd look for a modification of this particular claim before long."

I agree. Even if the bodies were frozen at some point, I think they'd unfreeze in a hurry when the plane crashed and exploded.

[July 4th]

But would decrompression take longer to occur if there was a small hole rather than say something bigger, like a door had blown out?

Sure. If it's a slow leak, the pilots can tell and would have a lot more time to deal with the problem. But with a sudden decompression, not only does the air pressure in the cabin change a hell of a lot faster, the decompression can damage things when it occurs. I have no idea what happened here - there are no reports of missing doors, etc. However, several major air accidents have been caused by sudden decompression.

In this accident in 1974, an improperly closed cargo door ripped away from the plane, tearing control cables and other parts with it. The pilots lost control, and the plane crashed.

[mewzilla]

Pressurization of an aircraft isn't about regulating the air going in, it's about the air going out.

Thanks. But you've still got a fixed quantity of air that has to get out through the leak. Wouldn't it take longer to get through a small leak than a big one? I'm just wondering how decompression could occur fast enough so that the crew couldn't respond in time, and not leave anything visible to the fighter pilots.

[Zavien Doombringer]

decom is a word we use when there is a sudden loss of pressure. and in this case, we don't know if pressurtization actually existed. They could have set the auto level at 35 and set the INS and fallen asleep, non would have been the wiser. Hypoxia would have over taken them quickly at 20,000 flying for an hour with out the heater would have frozen anything within an hour

[Muzzle_em]

That is something that did not make sense to me.
I thought they have several "back-ups" for breathing. I also cannot imagine a clothed body freezing solid in 20 seconds.

[stuartcr]

The crew that found them, must have moved very quickly, if the bodies hadn'e even thawed out yet, even after a crash.

[mewzilla]

That was Mr. Mew's first thought. But I haven't heard any reports of the fighter jet pilots saying that they found anything wrong with the exterior of the jet. I wonder if they got video?

[Boundless]

> ... the plane was in the air over 3 hours before
> the crash. Have a source for the 1 hour?

Nope. The timeline just posted above seems more reliable,
except ...

It says 1:20 from loss-of-contact to F16 intercept.

35,000 is the maximum altitude for sealed mask breathing
in an unpressurized environment. Even with an unlimited
O2 supply, it's doubtful that anyone but cockpit crew
could survive long. The passenger drop masks would be
useless without an emergency descent. And neither the
cabin O2 generators, nor the cockpit bottles last 1:20.

Note that the timeline doesn't mention when people
were observed moving about the cabin. Unless the
decompression was very slow, my bet is that everyone
would have been dead (but not "frozen solid") by
intercept time.

[maestro]

Not in Greek--that phrase does not exist.

EXACTLY MY POINT!

but,...in the associative 'mind'....in panic-stress conditions?

Plus,....were there any 'special instructions'...(ie. changes)... to the pilot before takeoff?

?...when do the pilot open his 'Thermos-bottle' for a 'break' drink?

[mewzilla]

They could have set the auto level at 35 and set the INS and fallen asleep, non would have been the wiser.

Well, I guess the CVR and the FRD are going to be pretty important. Wonder how Boeing feels about the French doing the analysis?

[Steve_Seattle]

This sounds a lot like the Payne Stewart crash. It's surprising that the pilots didn't have time to realize what was happening and reduce altitude before they lost consciousness.