They stole software?
Posted on 08/14/2005 4:49:17 AM PDT by Gorons
Athens - A Cypriot Boeing 737 airliner with 121 people on board from Larnaca, Cyprus, crashed apparently pilotless on Sunday near Athens, a traffic controller at Athens international airport told AFP.
Just before the crash, airforce crew observed the airline's pilots doubled up in the cabin, the controller said.
A spokesperson for the Greek army chief-of-staff said hijacking "could not be ruled out".
"An act of piracy is likely," said the spokesperson, Gerassimos Kalpoyannakis. The pilots of the two F16 fighters that were sent up to escort the airliner before the crash "saw a situation that was not normal in the pilots' cabin."
Kalpoyannakis said the plane crashed at Varnava, an uninhabited area about 40 kilometres northeast of Athens and not on the Euboea peninsula as previously reported by the Athens control tower.
He said teams of rescue workers, fire-fighters and ambulances were on their way to the scene and that all the hospitals in the region had been placed on emergency status.
There was no immediate word on casualties.
"The plane has crashed," said Iannis Pantazatos, who was in charge of the Athens airport control tower. "The information was given to us by the air force, which sent two fighters to escort the aircraft."
Shortly before the plane crashed, Pantazatos told AFP: "The airport lost all contact with the plane, which should have landed in the late morning, and two air force planes sent up in reconnaissance found it flying above the Euboea peninsula, but they saw the pilots doubled up in the cabin."
"We do not know how the plane is flying. It is being escorted by the military planes and the airport is in a state of emergency." he said.
The Helios airways plane was reported to be carrying 115 passengers and six crew.
Helios, established in 1999, is the first private airline in Cyprus. It had a fleet of four Boeing 737 jets and operated flights to London, Athens, Sofia, Dublin and Strasbourg in France.
Don't know.
Maybe one of the pilots was a bad guy.
"Doubled up on the fight deck?"
Yes, a pilot, co-pilot, terrorist, co-terrorist.
Bump
Good article, thank you.
I was thinking that very thing. Was someone able to open the cockpit door, another crew member perhaps? If so, did they radio for help in flying the plane or for any other reason? This is strange indeed.
We need some real pilots in here to clarify.
If indeed the pilots were seen doubled up, me wonders if there was some kind of nerve agent release in the cockpit that would cause muscular spasms enough to distort the bodies shape enough to be noticed by the f 16 pilots. Whack the cock pit fast enough and the plane is screwed.
Failure of cabin pressure on a 737 that then results in a fatal crash happens..... how often? Every year? Every 5 years, Every decade? ......
Destruction of an aircraft do to piracy has happened how many times in the last 10 years?
I think it is valid to start with foulplay because we have had recent al queda warnings this week in turkey. Like it or not this is the reality. You are the one jumping to conclusions that it cant possibly be a terrorist event.
They stole software?
FWIW, I've heard at least one report that said the fighter jet pilots saw the co-pilot at the controls and no sign of the captain in the cockpit. Now, I don't now how they'd know one guy from another, but I'm guessing they can count and saw at least one crew member missing. Anyone else hear the report about the captain not being in the cockpit?
Rescuers walk by the tail of a Cypriot Helios Airways jet near the coastal town of Grammatikos, about 40 kilometers (25 miles) north of Athens, Greece on Aug. 14 2005. The jet with 115 passengers and six crew members on board crashed Sunday north of Athens, the Defense Ministry and fire department said, and it was not clear if the pilots were conscious or at the controls when it went down. Helios Airways is a privately owned Cypriot airline. (AP Photo/ Thanassis Stavrakis)
GRAMMATIKO, Greece - A Cypriot airliner crashed into a hill north of Athens on Sunday, killing all 121 people on board. Reports said at least one of the pilots was unconscious when the plane went down, possibly from lack of oxygen in the cabin.
The Helios Airways flight HCY 522 was headed from Larnaca, Cyprus, to Athens International Airport when it crashed at 12:20 p.m. near the town of Grammatiko, about 25 miles north of the Greek capital, leaving flaming debris and luggage strewn across a ravine and surrounding hills.
The Boeing 737, carrying 115 passengers and six crew, was to have flown onto Prague, Czech Republic, after stopping in Athens.
"The fire is still burning and there are no survivors," fire chief Christos Smetis said.
The cause of the crash was unclear, but early indications were that it was a technical problem — possibly decompression — and not terrorism. The plane's black boxes, which contain flight data and voice recordings, had been recovered at the scene, state NET television reported.
"The first indications, in Cyprus and in Greece, are that it was not caused by a terrorist act," said Marios Karoyian, a spokesman for President Tassos Papadopoulos.
A man whose cousin was a passenger on the plane told Greece's Alpha television he received a cell-phone text message minutes before the crash. "He told me the pilots were unconscious. ... He said: "Farewell, cousin, here we're frozen," Sotiris Voutas said.
Two F-16 fighter jets were sent out shortly after the plane entered Greek air space over the Aegean Sea and did not respond to radio calls — a standard Greek practice. As they intercepted the airliner shortly before it crashed, the jet pilots saw one of the pilots slumped unconscious over the controls, Alpha TV reported. They also reported that there was no movement in the cabin.
Greek state television quoted Cyprus Transport Minister Haris Thrasou as saying the plane had decompression problems in the past.
David Kaminski Morrow, deputy news editor of the British-based Air Transport Intelligence magazine, said depressurization is extremely serious because its effects happen so quickly.
"If the aircraft is at 30,000 feet, you don't stay conscious for long, maybe 15 to 30 seconds. It is like standing on top of Mount Everest," he said. "But if you are down at 10,000 feet, you can breath for a lot longer."
Airplane cabins are usually pressurized at 8,000 feet.
Sudden loss of cabin pressure was blamed for a similar crash that took place in South Dakota on Oct. 25, 1999. A private Learjet 35 lost pressure, leaving pro golfer Payne Stewart and four others unconscious. The twin-engine jet went down in a pasture after flying halfway across the country on autopilot.
In the Greek crash, the only piece of the plane that remained intact was the tail section. Bits of human flesh, clothing, and luggage were scattered around the wreckage, which also started brush fires around the area.
Rescue helicopters flew overhead and firefighting planes swooped low to extinguish some of the fires. Fire trucks and ambulances crowded roads near the crash site and dark black smoke could be seen rising from various sites around the crash. A number of black-robed Greek Orthodox Christian were also on the scene.
Rescue officials were also looking for the plane's two black boxes, two orange-colored devices that record data from the plane and the voices of the pilots in the cockpit. They are designed to survive crashes.
"The Helios flight that crashed in the Athens area left Larnaca and was headed for Athens. The causes of the crash are not known," government spokesman Theodoros Roussopoulos said.
Rescue workers and residents on the scene said they had not found any survivors.
"There is wreckage everywhere. I am here, things here are very difficult, they are indescribable," Grammatiko Mayor George Papageorgiou said. "I am looking at back tail. The fuselage has been destroyed. It fell into a chasm and there are pieces. All the residents are here trying to help."
The head of the Greek airline safety committee, Akrivos Tsolakis, described it as the "worst accident we've ever had."
He speculated that there may have been a problem with the cabin pressure.
"There apparently was a lack of oxygen, which is usually the case when the cabin is de-pressurized," Tsolakis said.
Witnesses said they saw the plane being followed by the Greek air force jets when it crashed.
Greek radio and television stations reported that the air force pilots saw no movement in the cockpit of the plane before the crash. There were some reports the two pilots seemed to be unconscious.
"The plane crashed around 400 meters (yards) from homes in the area," said Miltiadis Merkouris, a spokesman for the Grammatiko municipality.
Helios Airways was founded in 1999 as Cyprus' first private airline. It operates a fleet of Boeing 737 jets to cities including London; Athens; Sofia, Bulgaria; Dublin, Ireland; and Strasbourg, France.
Greek Prime Minister Costas Caramanlis canceled a holiday on the Aegean island of Tinos to return to Athens to deal with the crash. Cypriot President Tassos Papadopoulos also canceled a vacation.
Well stated post by that guy.
Unlike that poster I am a pilot, a retired fighter pilot, as well as a USAF trained Life Support Officer that was trained at Kelly AFB and Brooks.
Mechanical failure if back-up Oxygen systems are there in case of emergency. The issue is one of mechanical reliability and an aircrew’s ability to react in a timely manner.
Mechanical reliability of systems rarely ever deployed is problematic and involved regular maintenance checks, which by the way, do add a human error element in the reliability of the system. Also, we are talking a foreign maintenance program. Foreign maintainers are notorious for their lack of reliability and safety practices. Indeed, Cypress is ranked very low for maintenance practices and safety.
As far as the aircrew reacting, if the warning are not present they do have a cabin altimeter they can reference, but here is the thing: A reliance on the back-up system and warning systems does lead to complacency and complacency will affect their discipline to actually read the gauge. Of course, in a climb you reference the gauge to make sure cabin pressurization is working, and that is usually done when climbing through 10,000 feet. If it looks good at that time you rely more on the bells and whistles rather than the gauge.
Now, if the pilots succumbed to Oxygen deprivation (hypoxia) due to a slow leak, the discovery of their hypoxia symptoms may be slow in coming. . .too slow to discover. They would slowly, and without really noticing, pass out.
With rapid decompression the effects are felt (and usually heard) and see and reacted too. TUC, (time of useful consciousness) varies with altitude. At FL35 I think it is around 20 secs to react, with less time if higher and more time if lower.
So, if the aircraft experienced rapid decompression the aircrew would have known and reacted quickly, and if the cockpit oxygen back-up system was still functioning, they would have survived.
If the hypoxia were due to a slow leak then they would have passed out not knowing what was happening. Of course, as the aircraft descended to a lower altitude the aircrew would recover, but they recovery is not like you see in movies. There is not magic moment of awakening. . it is a wakening where the aircrew are confused and unsure and groggy. If there is enough time then they may recover fully to save the jet, if not, they die.
Right now we simply don't know what happened. We have no facts, no flight data recorder, and we certainly have no survivor from the cockpit to tell us what happened.
The supposed text message is interesting in that the guy that sent the text was likely metabolically more fit than others and that might explain the message.
Anything else right now is guesswork only, and I as, irresponsible.
Now, for real, I'm outta here.
Sabotage by competitors?
If the plane was on a short haul from Cyprus to Athens, it wouldn't have been up much higher than 15,000 feet, would it, anyone know?
A terrorist attack on south Cyprus is unlikely.
That's where they bank all their money.
The simple truth is that we will never really know what happened. Only foolish people will believe what the governements/media tell them about the cause.
I suggest that everyone looks at a map of Cyprus and where it is located in the world. Use your own mind and don't listen to the drivel from the governments/media.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.