Intelligent Design Now Comes to Australia ( Issue is Going International)

Sydney Morning Heralkd ^ | Aug 11,2005 | AAP

[little jeremiah]

Not ignore, just discount, because such philosophies are actually offshoots of theistic philosophies. Without theism, such philosophies would not exist.

[Ready2go]

But I am looking for someone in the ID camp who will make a positive statement about what elements are shared by ID and the mainstream.

Howdy there js1138;

I can't speak for the ID camp because I don't know what they believe.

But it would be so easy to present both sides;

Evolution's camp says "we don't know where you came from...but over many billions of years...everything changed from one creature into another until mankind got here".

verses

God's camp says "You were created for a purpose and plan...you are special and unique to Him".

Evolution's camp says "When you die that's it...it's over...get everything you can and do what you want now. Survival of the fittess"

verses

God's camp says you have much, much more to look forward to then what you see all around you right now, including a new flesh and bone body.

1 Cor 2:9

9 That is what the Scriptures mean when they say,
“No eye has seen, no ear has heard,
and no mind has imagined
what God has prepared
for those who love him.

Evolution's camp says we have many old bones to prove where we came from.

verses

God's camp says "God has sent many millions of folks back from the dead to tell us what they saw after they died and came back to life".

TEACHER: Now we can't tell you kids what to believe... check everything out for yourselves...research everything you can get your hands on and come to your own conclusions.

Then go on and teach class.

[js1138]

That would be fine in a class on comparative religions, but it has nothing to do with science.

[JohnnyM]

When macro-evolution can be tested, observed, and repeated then it can be considered science.

JM

[King Prout]

Without theism, such philosophies would not exist.

interesting statement. Prove it, or at least show your reasoning.

Moreover, disprove the following null-hypothesis:

In the course of his development, man developed a sense of supernatural or suspicious fear of the unknown. In order to comfort himself, to impose a satisfying pattern on a patternless world, Man invented various types of supernatural explanations. These supernatural folklore eventually developed into theistic religios creeds. Eventually, several societies of Man developed belief systems which discarded these uber-superstitions, discovering alternate means to impose a satisfactory pattern on their lives which had no need for hallucination, magic, faeries, or gods. Whether or not the gods of their forefathers ever existed, these new philosophies became completely independent of the ancestral stories concerning them. The are stand-alone creeds of their own, fulfilling the moral and ethical and emotional parameters of theistic religion - sans gods.

[Oztrich Boy]

Evolution's camp says "we don't know where you came from...but over many billions of years...everything changed from one creature into another until mankind got here".
verses
God's camp says "God has sent many millions of folks back from the dead to tell us what they saw after they died and came back to life".

You're matching apples and oranges there.

What it would really entail is showimg how the scientific explanation of NDEs involving known brain chemistry might lead some people to believe "God sent them back from the dead to tell us what they saw after they died and came back to life"

It could be then pointed out that religions have a vested interest when they make their unsopported claims on the matter.

TEACHER: Now we can't tell you kids what to believe... check everything out for yourselves...research everything you can get your hands on and come to your own conclusions.

Sure you want to go there?

[little jeremiah]

Your comments deserve a thoughtful reply, which I don't have time for tonight, but will address them tomorrow.

Have a good night!

[Dimensio]

The real problem with Darwinist evolutionary theory (besides the fact that I consider it erroneous) is that it is based on the premise that the earth, indeed the universe, is accidental, and therefore purposeless and soulless.

It is based on no such premise. Why are you repeating a claim that is not only false, but is also the logical fallacy of appeal to consequences?

[Dimensio]

But it would be so easy to present both sides;

You are presenting a false dichotomy between evolution and Biblical literalism. Not only are you suggesting that a totally non-scientific premise be presented as science, but you are also ignoring all other religions in the world. Why do you think that Christianity is so special that it gets mention over all other religions?

[Ready2go]

What it would really entail is showimg how the scientific explanation of NDEs involving known brain chemistry might lead some people to believe "God sent them back from the dead to tell us what they saw after they died and came back to life"

It could be then pointed out that religions have a vested interest when they make their unsopported claims on the matter.

TEACHER: Now we can't tell you kids what to believe... check everything out for yourselves...research everything you can get your hands on and come to your own conclusions.

Sure you want to go there?

---

Howdy there Oztrich Boy;

Yeppers I'd be willing to go there. Let them research everything they want. Open their minds...get them to think for themselves. Let them read everything they want on all different religions.

I have enough faith and trust in God to know that He'll show them what He wants them to know.

PS: The Evolutionist camp also have a vested interest...grants.

[Ready2go]

You are presenting a false dichotomy between evolution and Biblical literalism. Not only are you suggesting that a totally non-scientific premise be presented as science, but you are also ignoring all other religions in the world. Why do you think that Christianity is so special that it gets mention over all other religions?

---

Howdy there Dimensio;

I didn't say it had to be taught in science class, but it could as there's lot's of research going on with NDE's.
(Near Death Experiences)

Besides trying to teach where we came from...it would be teaching where we're going to. We all have eternal lives.
Our only decision is where we're going to spend it.

Teach some about all religions, but for pete's sakes let our kids hear some spiritual values.

All religions believe in God. And I have enough faith and trust in God to know that He will open up the kids spiritual eyes, and show them what He wants them to know.

[Dimensio]

Besides trying to teach where we came from...it would be teaching where we're going to. We all have eternal lives. Our only decision is where we're going to spend it.

So you assert. Not everyone believes this.

All religions believe in God.

No, not all do. Some believe in multiple gods. Some don't believe in any gods. Some believe in gods, but consider the gods to be irrelevant to human enlightenment. Moreover, you supported your claims with Biblical references. Don't try to tell me that you were being all-encompassing.

[Ready2go]

Besides trying to teach where we came from...it would be teaching where we're going to. We all have eternal lives. Our only decision is where we're going to spend it.

Dimensio said: So you assert. Not everyone believes this.

---

You may not and that's your choice as God gave us all free will, but there's millions of folks that would tell you otherwise from first hand experience.

But the question is how will our kids be able to have a choice of their own if no one's allowed to tell them?

---

I said: All religions believe in God.

Dimensio said: No, not all do. Some believe in multiple gods. Some don't believe in any gods. Some believe in gods, but consider the gods to be irrelevant to human enlightenment.

Moreover, you supported your claims with Biblical references. Don't try to tell me that you were being all-encompassing.

---

LOL...Of course I use verses from the Bible because I'm a Christian.

Schools don't have to teach a certain "religion"...all they have to tell the kids is many people believe in a Creator...a higher power...that someone a whole lot smarter then any of us...put all of this together.

And there's a whole lot more to look forward to then what we see all around us right now.

I know you don't believe that and it's ok...your choice. :)

[blowfish]

As long as they include all sides of the issue, including this one

[Dimensio]

You may not and that's your choice as God gave us all free will, but there's millions of folks that would tell you otherwise from first hand experience.

And their interpretation first-hand experience is not necessarily a reflection of reality.

But the question is how will our kids be able to have a choice of their own if no one's allowed to tell them?

Obviously someone told you about it. Did you learn it in school?

Schools don't have to teach a certain "religion"...all they have to tell the kids is many people believe in a Creator...a higher power...that someone a whole lot smarter then any of us...put all of this together.

And what of children of parents who don't believe that? Or do they not count?

[mordo]

And their interpretation first-hand experience is not necessarily a reflection of reality.

Well what's yours Dimensio?

Your interpretation first-hand experience that is, and may not necessarily be a reflection of reality.

Dont run away!!

[Dimensio]

Well what's yours Dimensio?

I haven't experienced an NDE, so I have no interpretations of my own.

Your interpretation first-hand experience that is, and may not necessarily be a reflection of reality.

Always a possibility for anything, but we're specifically dealing with the topic of NDEs. The problem with those is that you can't really easily reproduce them for personal observation and you can't observe anyone else's directly at all, so it's impossible to get any real peer review.

[Chickensoup]

Anyone who falls for that crock has no business calling themselves an educator

Why?

[Chickensoup]

I want to hear for ID advocates that they accept the core findings of physical science. Or have them admit they don't.

Behe, in his book does accept the core findings of physical science, he does not accept blind natural selection. If you have not read the book, I think it would be useful...no matter what side of the court you play.

I have never found any one who has actually refuted his work. And I am open to some direction here. Not name-calling, refutation.

[tm22721]

45% of Americans believe that humans were created 10,000 years ago by God.

That says it all.

BUMP