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To: not_apathetic_anymore; inquest; jpsb; Sloth; lady lawyer; kharaku; twigs; Elpasser; ModelBreaker; ..

Guess I should have donned asbestos suit and kevlar jacket before checking replies this evening. You have all made some very good points and if allowed I would change some of my comments written this morning.

This whole business of what is Constitutional and what is not has been clouded in many cases by listening to voices other than the voice of the Constitution itself. We listen to conservative radio commentary; we listen to lame stream media commentary; we become indoctrinated on various issues. We sometimes confuse in our minds legislated law vs the Constitution.

A case in point - the Civil Rights Act of 1964 established law against certain forms of discrimination that were not spelled out in the Constitution. The Constitution allows laws like this act to happen, as long as no portion of the Constitution is violated by the specifics of that law. If the law is challenged in the Judiciary and it goes to the Supreme Court, a Constitutional decision may be forthcoming. I think most of you to whom I am addressing these comments, as well as myself, would want it to be a 'Constitutional' decision based on the voice of the Constitution. We want 'Constitutionalists' on the Supreme Court who will listen to the voice of the Constitution in reaching a decision.

We are plagued with decisions based on what feels good to the Leftist Justices on the Court; we are plagued with decisions based on what the European Union says; we are plagued with decisions based on erronous interpretations of what they think they are hearing the voice of the Constitution say, or maybe even worse, they are making their decisions on what the want to hear the voice of the Constitution say.

With all that said, I think I agree with your points on the Constitutional issues in this case - that there is no Constitutional support for the decision of SCOTUS in overturning the result of the Colorado referendum.

Now, to the moral issues...this is where it gets sticky for some, maybe even for me. We as Christians too often set ourselves up as judge and jury on many issues. We have turned 'Church' into 'Dos and Don'ts'. We have made Church a man-ordained religious system, and I believe we have been called out of those systems.

God's Word says 'judge not lest you be judged'. Yet we judge and condemn. What example did Jesus give us? He judged and condemned the religious system (the Scribes and Pharisees) that had become a religious system of men, yet he did not condemn the ordinary sinner. He supped with sinners. Sinners were his friends. He chose 12 sinners as his closest comrades and confidants. We don't see evidence of any 'conversion' experience in these 'deciples' until we get to the book of Acts, after the Lord's ascension - maybe not until Pentecost.

Now, back to how Jesus treated sinners...the woman 'taken in the act of adultery'...she was judged and about to be condemned by the Pharisees who brought her to Jesus. Jesus listened to them, then said, 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone.' (I think they understood him, and I think what he meant was 'let him who is without THIS sin...' - then he stooped and wrote in the dust. What did he write? While he was writing those who would condemn the woman left, one by one. Was he writing the names of the men 'adulterating' with her, and each man, as his name was written, left, condemned? And when the woman answered him that her accusers were all departed, Jesus says, 'neither do I condemn you, go, and sin no more'. Jesus demonstrated the new law in this example - the law of love.

If there was any condemnation in the above account, it would be that Jesus judged the men who brought the woman to him. What sin(s) did each of us commit today? Are any of them any less a sin than that of the gays? God judges sin, then he restores us to Himself by grace...grace resulting in mercy made possible by Jesus dying on the cross. He operates in the law that he describes as Love. He expects us to do the same. Sin is to be judged, but it is not for us to judge the sinner. It is for us to love the sinner.

With that, I can say that I do judge the sin - any sin - but God does not allow me to judge the sinner, not even myself.


178 posted on 08/04/2005 8:10:56 PM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea
A case in point - the Civil Rights Act of 1964 established law against certain forms of discrimination that were not spelled out in the Constitution. The Constitution allows laws like this act to happen, as long as no portion of the Constitution is violated by the specifics of that law.

The portion of the Constitution that's violated by that law is the 10th amendment. It makes it clear that the federal government only has the powers granted to it by the Constitution, and it is not granted the power to legislate in that area.

180 posted on 08/04/2005 8:22:26 PM PDT by inquest (FTAA delenda est)
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea

nice post. I almost agree with you. Very nice post.


184 posted on 08/05/2005 12:02:03 AM PDT by jpsb
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