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Let's Have No More Monkey Trials - To teach faith as science is to undermine both
Time Magazine ^ | Monday, Aug. 01, 2005 | CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER

Posted on 08/01/2005 10:58:13 AM PDT by wallcrawlr

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To: spunkets
It is doctrine and disproven hypothesis that the world came into existence literally as per Gen.

Ooops!

Was I sleeping thru THIS class?

1,301 posted on 08/03/2005 11:24:33 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: b_sharp; eleni121
I really have no idea why you insist on making the link and then try to convince us it matters.

Because it vilifies evolution, and allows eleni121 to feel good about ignoring the truth in it.

Course, you knew that.

Both Darwin and Marx were British intellectuals in about the same era, and if they did have any connection, so what? Their respective theories are completly irrelevant to each other.

1,302 posted on 08/03/2005 11:25:51 AM PDT by narby (There are Bloggers, and then there are Freepers.)
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To: balrog666
All too often men create gods in their own image

I can sure agree with this!

1,303 posted on 08/03/2005 11:26:10 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: balrog666

In the Land of the Blind;
the One-eyed Man is KING!


1,304 posted on 08/03/2005 11:27:17 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Elsie

Obviously.


1,305 posted on 08/03/2005 11:29:51 AM PDT by spunkets
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To: xzins
From your post #1266
I can place any inanimate objects you want in any simulated environment you want, and I'll predict that when we come to check on it a year from now that it will still be inanimate.

"500 million years.....I didn't know you could live that long. Maybe I'll have to sign on with your deity.

If I understand post #1266 correctly you were trying to say that abiogenesis was highly improbable and has not been observed. You then proposed an artificial limit of 100 years on it. I changed your limit to one closer to what abiogenesis proposes. Your limit of just one life time is silly on the face of it. Man does not just record his own observations but uses observations of those that go before him. We have not redone all of Descartes' work, or Pascal's or Kepler's or Galileo's or Newton's or even Einstein's work. We pick up on their work and expand upon it.

One really nice thing about creating a strawman of a concept is that it becomes easier to make it look silly. So far this is all you've have done.

"Observable time says, "No way." Experiments say, "no way."

Observable time has no bearing on the validity of abiogenesis. (or any other science) No one ever stated it would happen in one life time. No one ever thought it would.

It sounds like you are saying that there is some time limit or maximum number of tries for experiments. Is this indeed what you are saying?

"But, just cause I'm a really, really nice guy, I'll give you the 500 million and raise you 6.5 billion more. The inanimate stuff in your test tube will always be inanimate stuf. "

This may be true, but this is not what the original proposal was. You said any objects in any conditions. This was an attempt by you to narrow the possibilities down and increase the likelyhood of those calculations of yours.

Unless you are prescient, I can't see why your last comment has any validity.

This is also not an accurate experiment. The number of experiments available to the prebiotic Earth is an enormous number. The experiments done by the prebiotic Earth using simple chemical interaction and the rules of chemical bonding are not random in any sense and would be carried on trillions of trillions of times concurrently and over time.

Add those constraints into your calculations and redo them.

1,306 posted on 08/03/2005 11:31:00 AM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: WildHorseCrash
Elsie, this doesn't concern you.

I can make it my concern.


This is, after all, an OPEN forum.

1,307 posted on 08/03/2005 11:32:11 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Analog Artist
In case all races are equal and originated from just two people, maybe you and all your creationist rabble rousers should mandatorily wed your daughters and sisters only to BLACK and HISPANIC people from the remotest corners of Africa and Latin America..

Some of my fellow congregants are doing that very thing, smarty pants. Though voluntarily, not mandated.


Question: How do know I'm NOT 'black' or 'hispanic'???

Perhaps a little RACSIM showing?

1,308 posted on 08/03/2005 11:35:56 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: WildHorseCrash; bethelgrad
... then you are more of a damned ignorant, bigoted fool...

OOOoooooh!

NOW you are DAMNED as well!

1,309 posted on 08/03/2005 11:37:17 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Analog Artist
"You are ridiculously funny. In case all races are equal and originated from just two people, maybe you and all your creationist rabble rousers should mandatorily wed your daughters and sisters only to BLACK and HISPANIC people from the remotest corners of Africa and Latin America.. afterall, everyone originates from the same pool.. dont they ;) "

As a matter of fact they do. All of us originated in Africa and from a group that later went through a bottleneck in Asia. This post of yours sounds incredibly bigoted. I hope I am just misinterpreting it.

1,310 posted on 08/03/2005 11:38:34 AM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: Elsie
I don't smaoke, so the odds are I'll vote more often than you.

This is not true for certain Chicago ex-smokers.

1,311 posted on 08/03/2005 11:39:16 AM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: b_sharp

Darwin did not deny divine creation. He was unsure of how life started.

If you check other threads you will find posts by both creationists and 'evos' that claim Darwin was a Christian throughout his life.

Might as well clear THIS up!!!




 

 

Regarding this interjection, Martin Gardner writes:

"Darwin himself, as a young biologist aboard H.M.S. Beagle, was so thoroughly orthodox that the ship's officers laughed at his propensity for quoting Scripture. Then 'disbelief crept over me at a very slow rate,' he recalled, 'but was at last complete. The rate was so slow that I felt no distress.' The phrase 'by the creator,' in the final sentence of the selection chosen here, did not appear in the first edition of Origin of Species. It was added to the second edition to conciliate angry clerics. Darwin later wrote, 'I have long since regretted that I truckled to public opinion and used the Pentateuchal term of creation, by which I really meant 'appeared' by some wholly unknown process." [stress added] (Gardner, 1984)
 
 

From here ---> http://www.csuchico.edu/~curban/DarwinDayCollectionOneChapter.html


1,312 posted on 08/03/2005 11:39:57 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: RobbyS

The reason they deny it could ever exist is because there is no scientific evidence.


1,313 posted on 08/03/2005 11:41:26 AM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: b_sharp
I hope I am just misinterpreting it.

I doubt if he's that subtle.

1,314 posted on 08/03/2005 11:43:03 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: durasell
I may be alone on this -- but I think it would be a hoot if ID got into the science curriculum.

Thing is, they don't want to turn 'ID' into a branch of science; they want, rather, to turn science into a branch of theology.

1,315 posted on 08/03/2005 11:43:35 AM PDT by malakhi
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To: b_sharp; Alamo-Girl
Observable time has no bearing on the validity of abiogenesis. (or any other science) No one ever stated it would happen in one life time. No one ever thought it would.

Come on now...you are saying that it (abiogenesis) happened at one point in time, aren't you....that it DID happen?

1,316 posted on 08/03/2005 11:46:56 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: Elsie
"Darwin later wrote, 'I have long since regretted that I truckled to public opinion and used the Pentateuchal term of creation, by which I really meant 'appeared' by some wholly unknown process."

Is this not what I said?

1,317 posted on 08/03/2005 11:47:11 AM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: Elsie
"I doubt if he's that subtle."

If you are correct, and I tend to think you are, he's just tarnished the image of all other evos.

1,318 posted on 08/03/2005 11:49:37 AM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: b_sharp
You are misinterpreting it, am not the least bigoted against black or anyone else.. many of these creationists are trying to pass of as harbingers of racial reconciliation, while trying to scapegoat scientists and engineers as "liberal elitists".
1,319 posted on 08/03/2005 11:50:40 AM PDT by Analog Artist (My thoughts are like silvery liquid metal floating through infinite white space in zero gravity..)
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To: b_sharp

No. They are are prone to rationalization as any of us are. The dots don't connect themselves.


1,320 posted on 08/03/2005 11:53:03 AM PDT by RobbyS (chirho)
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