Posted on 07/29/2005 7:28:13 AM PDT by TexKat
Natalee Holloway is shown in this undated family photo. (AP Photo/family photo)
thinking more and more that American criminals are involved
as I remember it, the FBI already had an ongoing situation and interest in aruba before the beginning of this.....the FBI's interest is not limited to the drug trade, as is the DEA, who also had an agent in aruba.
I agree. I believe Maggief reported that Joran worked for Mike Posner as a dealer at the Excelsior. Yet, it's been said he's a crappy gambler. Lots of 'debts.' Is PVDS enlisting his son to 'runoff' some dirty money? What are they into?
If Joran is such a 'poor' gambler, how is it that he was good enough to be a dealer? Wimps need not apply to deal a high-stakes game. And Joran is big enough to take care of himself.
He can be a dealer at 17?
Card dealer, that is.
Evidently so. Note that even though the 'legal' drinking age is 18, it was not enforced per se. There are many pictures of Joran drinking in clubs. Let's face it, many rules have been broken for the child of privilege and he in turn has broken many rules.
AND what is REALLY scary was when on one of the interviews they said that the hospital throws toxic waste into their dump and the wind blows this stuff all over. That alone turned me off of ever going to that island, how horrible!!
In the Netherlands the legal drinking age for beer and wine is 16. I suspect that the Dutch prefer to honor their home customs despite the "legal" drinking age on the island.
Remember early on, one of the stories told about Natalee was that she had lost some of the money her father had given her, and J gambled it back for her at the casino, what as it? about $300.
No doubt one of his lies, but who knows.
Next Thread
Shango is not a "man of the cloth." He is a god in Nigerian/South American/Caribbean mythology.
Some background info on Shango:
Shango is the deity, orisha whose power is imaged by thunder and lightning. As the legendary fourth king of the ancient kingdom of Oyo, Shango's rule was marked by capricious use of power. One account asserts that Shango was fascinated with magical powers. He inadvertently caused a thunderstorm and lightning struck his own palace killing many of his wives and children. In repentence he left his kingdom and travelled to Koso where he hung himself. When his enemies cast scorn upon his name, a rash of storms destroyed parts of Oyo. Shango's followers proclaimed him a god and that the storms were Shago's wrath, avenging his enemies. All of the stories concerning Shango represent the theme of power-capricious, authoritative, procreative, destructive, magical, medicinal, and moral power. Shango's staff visualizes the unpredictable and violent power of the deity. This power is personified through dance. At the annual festival for Shango, an entranced devotee, the elegunshango, dances to the piercing, staccato rhythms of the bata drum and waves the staff, oshe, with violent and threatening gestures and then suddenly draws it to himself in a motion of quiet composure. In one account regarding the oshe shango, the female figure who balances the ax, the sign of Shango's power is equated with the "caprice and creative experience of human sexuality." Shango's power is compared to the libidinal drive which may prove dangerous to the possibilities of creatvie sexual relationships. This interpretation may again reinforce racial stereotypes of African male sexual prowess. Perhaps the Shango cult may instead be veiwed as awarning of the arrogant use of military power to political leadership.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shango
In Yorùbá mythology, Shango is perhaps the most popular Orisha; he is a Sky Father, god of thunder and the ancestor of the Yorùbá. Shango is worshipped in Haitian Vodun, as a god of thunder and weather; in Brazilian Candomblé Ketu (under the name Xangô); in Umbanda, as the very powerful loa Nago Shango; and as the equivalent of St. Barbara in Santería, wherein he is called Chango. Shango was the fourth king of the Yorùbá, and deified after his death; mythologically, he (along with 14 others) burst forth from the goddess Yemaja's body after her son, Orungan, attempted to rape her for the second time. He has three wives; his favorite (because of her excellent cooking) is Oshun, a river goddess. Another wife, Oba, another river goddess, offered Shango her ear to eat. He scorned her and she became the Oba River, which combines in dangerous rapids with the Oshun River. Lastly, Oya was Shango's third wife, and stole the secrets of his powerful magic. In art, Shango is depicted with a double-axe on his three heads. He is associated with the holy animal, the ram, and the holy colors of red and white.
FWIW
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The reason why it is the same Posner is that first of all the mob wouldn't let an ordinary citizen pick off a cherry laundering biz like a casino on Aruba. That biz is perfect for the mob because, first, Aruba is on the drug transit line (and drugs are the biggest generator of revenues for the mob) and second, the drug biz requires a laundry operation.
Furthermore, the Mike Posner that owns the Excelsior is from Chicago.
If it isn't the same Mike Posner mentioned in the organizational chart, you can bet there is another Mike Posner working for the mob in Chicago.
I think what she means is the poster using the name Shango is a man of the cloth.
Barkeep, a double please. Can you send the bill to thre..table 12? Thanks!
Right. The FBI for years has been into drugs and international crime. But the new trist lately is the connection between international drug and mob cartels and ARMS SMUGGLING. That is the one that has me interested. All those Muslims in Colombia and Venezuela, Hamas, training camps and what are their ties to the international mobsters. That is scary and you bet Homeland Security is interested.
In the very beginning, you exposed the criminal element in Aruba. Then came the 'necktie killing'. Seem like we are making a full circle here.
Interesting isn't it. That island, that home for all kinds of nefarious people, is the backdrop for this disappearance. At some point it had to be that the crime against Natalee would rub up against the place and its problem.
I don't think the two are causally related. But it is there. Makes it understandable to me that if a culture tolerates mobsters, drug runners, moneylaundereers it will eventually affect everyone there. Even a beautiful young innocent Birmingham girl just celebrating her high school graduation.
A good reason to make every effort to get rid of these criminals. My fear is that one day, the connection between the islamofascist terrorists to these same mobsters will cause a catastrophe here.
Thanks, kcvl. How is the family doing?
You are very kind, but I can't take credit for this hard work. A poster named sunmoonstars over at scaredmonkeys.net transcribed it.
The ones that I know are hanging in there. Thanks for asking. I try to stay off of this thread because of knowing some of the people who are hurting. Some of the comments made about the family are ridiculous. It is better that I don't respond.
Thanks again for caring enough to ask. I'll pass on your message of concern to her aunt.
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