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To: Roos_Girl
3. The authority of the pope.

Unlike the Roman Catholic Church, Lutherans do not believe that the office of the papacy as such has any divine authority, or that Christians need to submit to the Pope's authority to be "true" members of the visible church. You need to read scripture before posting such garbage.

Matthew 16:13-24

John 21:14-19

And, to a lesser extent, John 20:19-23

In the passage from Matthew, because Peter was inspired by the Holy Spirit, and given the grace from the Father, he knew who Jesus was.

But then a few lines down, he starts talking in an uninspired way as a human -- saying that Jesus should not die as Jesus describes. At that point, Jesus calls Peter "a satan" -- because he turns away from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

The 2nd passage (John 21:14-19), Jesus is clearly talking to Peter to be the shepherd of the flock.

Anyone who cannot prove either Apostolic Succession or succession to be the leader of the Church cannot claim the responsibility or gifts given to Simon called Peter.

Finally, the quote from John 20 is about those who can forgive sins. This was given to the Apostles and those disciples aligned with the Apostles. It was not given to any women (which the Lutheran Church teaches). Jesus could have appeared to women as well, but He did not.

Finally, the key flaw of Protestant faiths is that they rely on Scripture. Scripture came only from the early Church -- Eastern rite and the Roman Catholic Church.

To believe that the Protestant faith is the best way of Salvation is to say that the Church was destroyed shortly after Jesus left earth, and only came back into being with the Protestant Reformation.

But the Roman Catholic Church, along with other Churches, have been in existence for 2000 years.

The Apostle Thomas went to India and founded 7 churches that are still in existence today -- 2000 years later. They re-united with the Roman Catholic Church when the Portugese traders reached India around the year 1500. They did not join the Church of England (Anglican Church), led by the King/Queen of England, even though English traders were also coming to India at that time.

The Protestant faith is a horrible example in the sense that every day new versions of the Protestant faith come out with different interpretations of Scripture.

Finally, ANYONE would acknowledge that two greatest Christians of the 20th Century were Pope John Paul II and Mother Teresa of Calcutta.

And the largest group of Christianity in the World is the Catholic faith -- over 1 billion members worldwide.

As for the Lutherans, they probably have a different group with their own Church Authority for every 1000 members. There must be over 1000 different flavors of the Lutheran faith. The Lutherans cannot agree to be re-united themselves, so the document you quote is truly worthless for that reason -- other Lutherans would contradict it by their own beliefs.

However, one billion Catholics have a common hierarchy and leadership -- which started with the 12, and was continued with leaders such as Ignatius of Antioch or Augustine of Hippo.

Finally, I have met people who have converted to the Catholic faith because they found that the Early Christian Church is like the Roman Catholic Church today.

So if one is truly interested in their faith, they sould not start at the year 1300, but from the time of the life of Christ to the persecution of Diocletian (300AD). That would at least be a start.

589 posted on 07/16/2005 5:24:42 AM PDT by topher (One Nation under God -- God bless and protect our troops)
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To: topher
I have met people who have converted to the Catholic faith because they found that the Early Christian Church is like the Roman Catholic Church today.

So true. As Cardinal Newman, one of the most famous Catholic converts since the Reformation, famously wrote in 1845: "To be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant."

The study of the Early Church is a very common path to conversion for many new Catholics: The Coming Home Network - Conversion stories

597 posted on 07/16/2005 6:37:41 AM PDT by AHerald (If Jesus needed to pray, how much more then do we need to pray?)
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To: topher
I surely had no intention of offending you with my post. To tell me that I need to read scripture before "posting such garbage" is uncalled for. It's simply a point of view of the Lutheran Church of Missouri Synod that you disagree with (psst, that's why you're not Lutheran.)

At no point did I say that I think Catholicism was bad, evil or wrong. In fact, I did agree that it was a Christian faith and had no problem with it at all, it just wasn't what I believed. I have no problem with you being a Catholic. What problem do you have with my being a Lutheran? Or do you just not like me stating an opinion that is different than yours? Are you one of the people I referred to earlier that thinks I'm going to hell because I'm not like you?

By the way, the Lutheran Church of the Missouri Synod does not teach that women can forgive sins and does not ordain women.

And there are over 1 billion Muslims in the world according to some estimates. I'm sure your argument of numbers instilling legitimacy would apply to them as well as Catholics, wouldn't it?

Finally, ANYONE would acknowledge that two greatest Christians of the 20th Century were Pope John Paul II and Mother Teresa of Calcutta.

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything? Yes, they were exemplary examples of how people should treat each other. Were they great Christians? One would think so because of their sacrifices for their fellow man, but only God knew their hearts, it's not for me to judge them as Christians. I'm sure you'll have issue with this because I'm not agreeing completely with you.

Why are people so uptight about their religion? Jesus wants us to have joy in our hearts for each other and for our actions to glorify God in order to bring others to Him. I hope you're not using the same technique you used here to try and save people who don't believe. You've certainly done a good job of turning me away from you; you come across as angry and defensive, perhaps I misinterpreted your use of the words "garbage", "horrible example" and "worthless"? A person's life and actions should show the light that is inside them, given to them by the awesome gift of Christ on the cross.

631 posted on 07/16/2005 1:51:15 PM PDT by Roos_Girl (Help! Help! I'm being repressed!)
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