Posted on 07/15/2005 11:29:25 AM PDT by nypokerface
JACKSON, Miss. - A Christian adoption agency that receives money from Choose Life license plate fees said it does not place children with Roman Catholic couples because their religion conflicts with the agency's "Statement of Faith."
Bethany Christian Services stated the policy in a letter to a Jackson couple this month, and another Mississippi couple said they were rejected for the same reason last year.
"It has been our understanding that Catholicism does not agree with our Statement of Faith," Bethany director Karen Stewart wrote. "Our practice to not accept applications from Catholics was an effort to be good stewards of an adoptive applicant's time, money and emotional energy."
Sandy and Robert Steadman, who learned of Bethany's decision in a July 8 letter, said their priest told them the faith statement did not conflict with Catholic teaching.
Loria Williams of nearby Ridgeland said she and her husband, Wes, had a similar experience when they started to pursue an adoption in September 2004.
"I can't believe an agency that's nationwide would act like this," Loria Williams said. "There was an agency who was Christian based but wasn't willing to help people across the board."
The agency is based in Grand Rapids, Mich., and has offices in 30 states, including three in Mississippi. Its Web site does not refer to any specific branch of Christianity.
Stewart told the Jackson Clarion-Ledger that the board will review its policy, but she didn't specify which aspects will be addressed.
The Web site says all Bethany staff and adoptive applicants personally agree with the faith statement, which describes belief in the Christian Church and the Scripture.
"As the Savior, Jesus takes away the sins of the world," the statement says in part. "Jesus is the one in whom we are called to put our hope, our only hope for forgiveness of sin and for reconciliation with God and with one another."
Sandy Steadman said she was hurt and disappointed that Bethany received funds from the Choose Life car license plates. "I know of a lot of Catholics who get those tags," she said.
She added: "If it's OK to accept our money, it should be OK to open your home to us as a family."
Bethany is one of 24 adoption and pregnancy counseling centers in Mississippi that receives money from the sale of Choose Life tags, a special plate that motorists can obtain with an extra fee.
Of $244,000 generated by the sale of the tags in 2004, Bethany received $7,053, said Geraldine Gray, treasurer of Choose Life Mississippi, which distributes the money.
"It is troubling to me if they are discriminating based on only the Catholics," Gray said.
The Jews never believed it, nor did God in the Gospels teach it. See Ezekiel 18 and John 9.
"What faith do you claim?"
Christian.
For Jesus to be called THE LAMB OF GOD, and for the PAssover Lamb to be eaten in full, and since NO ONE is ever told to physically eat another human being or part of them, this reference HAS to be an allegory, and the Passover Lamb is that allegory.
Prove it.
There is NO EVIDENCE that Aramaic was the only 'common' language spoken of at Jesus Time.
The archaelogy of items found are items written in Hebrew, just like the recent scrap of papyrus found, just like the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Since the passge of so many armies through Israel in the recent centuries before Christ, there was a plethora of langyages spoken. Latin from the Romans, Greek for the times of the grecian occupation or the Egyptian armies that fought back again or the Syrian armies that fought through...
Hebrew was the national language, not Aramaic. Aramaic may have been the common language of an area, but the scrolls in the temple were writtten in Hebrew, the sermons in the temple were in Hebrew, and the quotes of Scripture came from the Hebrew, not the Aramaic.
The simple usage of singular words in Aramaic do not prove Aramaic a commmon language, else, the New Testament would not have so many Greek writtten copies.
Well that was mean. I'm your brethen, dear Catholic, and we are ALL the body of Christ. Calling me a heretic is not acceptable. I don't agree with every aspect of Catholic doctrine, but I do not semantically attack Catholics. I love my Catholic friends. I think you are right and we are wrong also in many respects.
I work with a Catholic pro-life organization that insists that you support the church's position against birth control in order to participate. I do support that- wholeheartedly. Even if I didn't support the church's teachings, I would certainly support the organization's right to keep those who disagreed out of their ministry. Bethany has a statement of faith, and if you don't agree with it, find an agency with a different statement. I support their right to be choosy on picking parents although I may disagree with this choice to discriminate. Regarding the birth control issue, I know many a protestant who is pro-birth control. I think they're wrong, but I know that despite that area that they are indeed moral people that would be excellent parents. I still wouldn't let them in the program if I were the said Catholic pro-life agency. Standards are good things to have.
Please don't call me a heretic. It hurts my feelings. It certainly doesn't demonstrate the "Christian cooperation" you are promoting and causes unnecessary division.
As a Cathol
If Catholics did discriminate, I would be fine with that. If I wanted Catholic parents for my baby, I should get Catholic parents. Hence my going through a Catholic agency.
Let them discriminate. There are tons of options for agencies. I am a former adoption social worker and I know.
I'm evangelical, and would want evangelical parents if I was a birthmother.
That's right. Now see Ezekiel 18 in the OT and John 9 in the NT. Tell me, from where in those 2 does original sin come from and why was it elucidated.
"How does original sin deny free will?"
Consider "born with a sin nature." Man was created in the image and likeness of God. Original sin results in no Freedom whatsoever, only the propensity to sin. It's illogical, both Ezekiel 18 and John 9 refute it.
"If we are not born with original sin then we don't need a Saviour. Right?
No. God came to teach. That teaching was the way to salvation. Here's what He said:
Luke 16:19-31
"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'"
"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
" "He said to him, "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
Note Abraham lives and so does Lazarus. He promised the Sign of Jonah, which is the Holy Spirit. Salvation depends on not rejecting the Holy Spirit. Would it be better if He never came to teach who He was?
See, this is mean also. What is your animosity towards me? What have I done to you. I love you cause we're family- but you are positively hateful towards me.
I think that there is a big difference between the birth mother discriminating/saying what she would like for the adoptive parent's religion to be and the agency being discriminatory (esp one that takes public funding)....this agency would not place babies with Catholic families only b/c they were Catholic--not b/c the birth mother didn't want a Catholic family.
I see what you're saying. I still think it's acceptable to have standards as an agency.
Well, it's been proven many times, but just for starters - ancient commentaries on the Scriptures were written in Aramaic. Both the Babylonian and Palestinian Talmuds were written in Aramaic. The Syrian Orthodox church is still using it in their liturgy.
There was even an Aramaic Galilean dialect (which is probably what Christ and his disciples spoke.) Bits of it are scattered around the New Testament. But they did NOT use Hebrew - most Jews of the time did not. Hebrew was read and written almost exclusively by the priestly class in Jerusalem. Most people heard it during services but didn't understand it very well (sort of analogous to the use of Latin in the Catholic church pre- VCII.) That is why the Septuagint was written (and why it was necessary.)
I thought you might find this article interesting, because while the author is actually arguing about something different (responding to Muslim criticism re the accuracy of the New Testament), he answers your question fairly directly and with supporting points. Excerpt:
The Jews of NT times spoke Aramaic at home and in conversations. Aramaic was similar Hebrew and Arabic. (al-Rahmaan, al-Rahiim, in the Fatiha of the Quran were probably derived from the Aramaic language). In business life and official writings they used the common Koine Greek that all peoples in the area used for hundreds of years. They actually thought and talked in at least two or three languages as people do today.The Roman occupiers of the Holy Land at that time spoke Latin and Greek. Evidence of the three languages used in that time is found in the New Testament itself in the Gospel of John 19:19-20:(NIV)
"Pilate had a notice prepared and fastened to the cross. It read: JESUS OF NAZARETH, The King of the Jews. Many of the Jews read this sign, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and the sign was written in Aramaic, Latin and Greek."There are other evidences such as "talitha cumi", little girl arise, and "maranatha" Lord come, in Aramaic. These show that the people were multi-lingual. Greek was the main means of communication but the heart language of the people was Aramaic. The language of formal worship was Hebrew, most likely with Aramaic interpretation and explaination. The New Testament and Gospels, which were written for Jews scattered all over the Mediterranean world were naturally written in the common language of Koine Greek so that all could understand and benefit. Koine Greek was much more expressive and more easily translated into western Latin based languages and therefore the entire world benefited.
I was able to attend the Kansas City Catholic Conference today and got to hear Mark Shea speak. I'm hoping to purchase a copy of his speech today because it was so darn funny! He had compiled a list of all the accusations and assumptions about Catholics and started piecing them together. One side accuses us of too much of one thing and the other side accuses us of not enough of that same thing. I hope I am making some sense. I need to get a copy to help me remember exactly! I kept thinking about all the misconceptions about Catholics here on FR and know it is a good sample of what we face daily in our lives. He did a wonderful job, as always!! He helped me feel lighthearted about all this debate and not so discouraged. The Truth is the Truth.
I also heard a talk from a guy named Chris Padgett. He was new to me. He's a Christian singer for Scarecrow and the Tinmen but has come out with a solo album called 'Golden'. It's a truly wonderful Catholic CD that would appeal to teenagers as well as myself (30 something!). I was about to buy my son Worship Jamz or something like that off the TV. This was so much better! His love for Jesus, Mary and the Sacraments is apparent in every song.
I'm so happy to be Catholic today!! I wish these conferences came along more than once a year. They really get you fired up! :o)
Invincible ignorance ping...
Prove it
What ancient commentaries? Eusebius written in Aramaic?
Jerome written in Aramaic?
Chrysystom written in Aramaic?
Babylonian Talmud would have been writen before Jesus and would have been written for the Jews who never came back from the captivity, so that has no bearing on this conversation.
The Septuigant was NOT written for the underclass, it was writen because 70 men took to translating the Hebrew into the language of the conqerors while they lived in Egypt, the Greeks, in order that the Jews who were scattered around the world would have the Word of God in their new Language.
But Multilingualism does not mean that Jesus didn't speak in thelanguage that Abraham spoke of, in fact, if He spoke a DIFFERENT language than Abraham, Isaaac and Jacob and David, He would be most out of place.
You ignore well-known history and make up stuff as you go along. It's like playing billiards with Mark Twain.
Well, thanks, but I'm getting kinda tired, and I hadn't even gotten to the confusion between Catholic Christian commentators like Eusebius and ancient Jewish commentators (who did write in Aramaic - e.g. the commentary on the Book of Habbakuk found at Qumran.) And it's late, and I've got choir in the morning. So I think I'll sign off and leave this task for somebody else.
On that, you got me, I forgot that about the Babylonian Talmud, I was for some reason thinking of something like the Septuigant for some reason
now, if oyu said Mishna, I KNEW that was later than Jesus... :)
But as for making everything else up, I have yet to see a source for your EVERYTHING was in Aramaic comment
"Most Anglicans believe in Transubstantion.".....No they do not. Most Anglicans believe in only a Spiritual Presence.
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