Posted on 07/15/2005 11:29:25 AM PDT by nypokerface
JACKSON, Miss. - A Christian adoption agency that receives money from Choose Life license plate fees said it does not place children with Roman Catholic couples because their religion conflicts with the agency's "Statement of Faith."
Bethany Christian Services stated the policy in a letter to a Jackson couple this month, and another Mississippi couple said they were rejected for the same reason last year.
"It has been our understanding that Catholicism does not agree with our Statement of Faith," Bethany director Karen Stewart wrote. "Our practice to not accept applications from Catholics was an effort to be good stewards of an adoptive applicant's time, money and emotional energy."
Sandy and Robert Steadman, who learned of Bethany's decision in a July 8 letter, said their priest told them the faith statement did not conflict with Catholic teaching.
Loria Williams of nearby Ridgeland said she and her husband, Wes, had a similar experience when they started to pursue an adoption in September 2004.
"I can't believe an agency that's nationwide would act like this," Loria Williams said. "There was an agency who was Christian based but wasn't willing to help people across the board."
The agency is based in Grand Rapids, Mich., and has offices in 30 states, including three in Mississippi. Its Web site does not refer to any specific branch of Christianity.
Stewart told the Jackson Clarion-Ledger that the board will review its policy, but she didn't specify which aspects will be addressed.
The Web site says all Bethany staff and adoptive applicants personally agree with the faith statement, which describes belief in the Christian Church and the Scripture.
"As the Savior, Jesus takes away the sins of the world," the statement says in part. "Jesus is the one in whom we are called to put our hope, our only hope for forgiveness of sin and for reconciliation with God and with one another."
Sandy Steadman said she was hurt and disappointed that Bethany received funds from the Choose Life car license plates. "I know of a lot of Catholics who get those tags," she said.
She added: "If it's OK to accept our money, it should be OK to open your home to us as a family."
Bethany is one of 24 adoption and pregnancy counseling centers in Mississippi that receives money from the sale of Choose Life tags, a special plate that motorists can obtain with an extra fee.
Of $244,000 generated by the sale of the tags in 2004, Bethany received $7,053, said Geraldine Gray, treasurer of Choose Life Mississippi, which distributes the money.
"It is troubling to me if they are discriminating based on only the Catholics," Gray said.
"If the Lubavitcher Rebbe had come out of a long period of prayer and declared Jesus as his Lord and Savior, would he have ceased to be a Jew, according to you."
I'm probably not the right person to ask, as since I stated earlier, I have not rejected the idea of Jesus as the Son of God. If I had to define my religious affiliation over the last 20-25 years, I would describe myself informally as a Jew for Jesus.
But a practicing Jew would say that if one accepts Jesus as the Messiah, they are by definition not adhering to the Jewish faith.
Actually, it was Christianity from which the Roman Catholic cult of personality broke away.
Hey, I know what...let's start a flame war about guitars, drums and jeans in worship services. That would be much more fun!
Ahem. You aren't suggesting that your old Irish Catholic friends such as me and a certain state senator emeritus would do such things to you just because you happen to have adhered to reformed teachings? Or at all?
You cut through all the BS with that post. Nicely done. :-)
There is not Jewish scripture or Christian scripture. There is only God's word. They are free to reject some portion of it, but it is foolish for Christians to follow their lead.
John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw His mother and the disciple standing by, whom He loved, he saith unto his mother, woman behold thy son! Then saith he to the disciple, behold thy mother!.....
So you agree that Mary is mother to ALL Christians
Even though it was the Latin insertion of the word filioque ("and the Son"; actually first incorrectly engraved into a Spanish plaque before accepted a couple hundred years later by Rome) into the Nicene Creed (itself statements from Holy Scripture) that prompted the Great Schism; by the time Martin Luther broke from Rome and wrote the Patriarch of Constantinople there were already 106 serious theological errors that where the result of Rome’s actions. Not just a couple of sentences as you say.
To the layperson many of these fine theological errors seem almost trivial, as would the requirement, for example, of two sequential zeros on the real number line to someone not familiar with mathematics. But by adding a single digit to the real number line incorrectly would have universal impact on every calculation made and every theory formulated. Sure one could easily make local compensations for so small an error, but as a mathematician delves into more and more complex mathematical problems, a simple error will find itself multiplied and manifested many times over. The filioque is no small matter, it's end result, many centuries later as the snowball became so large, as more ancient manuscripts became available, and as Rome found itself in error, was to have to create great doctrinal errors of infallibility and ex cathedra [“from the throne”], These doctrines were the only way to truly explain why Rome had the right to add it in the first place.
God is Truth, a theological premise that must be believed to discuss theology at all. In spite of mans sin, God's Truth will prevail, but the question is does it prevail in the 25,000+ different opinions of the Masses, many times at each others doctrinal throats, or does it exist in the unbroken, and humble Ecumenical gatherings of the entire body of Christ (which includes the laity, since there have existed, in the first 1000 years, Ecumenical decisions that where not accepted by the laity, even when 150 Bishop thought it was right...a process that Rome does not understand).
I would argue that it belongs to the Church "Visible" although many would say that is just my opinion. So take the opinion of the One Who Is Omnipotent - Christ Himself. On the Island of Patmos, St John received a revelation from Christ. Christ speaks of seven churches, and only one gets a good grade...the Church of Smyrna. Who was the Bishop of Smyrna at the time but St Polycarp, a disciple of St John. In the Introductory Note to the Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians the Eerdmans, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume I states: "...there is nothing improbable in the conjecture of Usher, that he [Polycarp] was the 'angel of the church in Smyrna' to whom the Master says, 'Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.'"
So why is this so important? The answer should be obvious. Christ, if He is all knowing (as I believe Him to be); could he have overlooked what St Polycarp was teaching concerning two very important issues…Communion and Unity of the Church. Grant it, both are interpreted 25,000+ different ways, but Christ knew what St Polycarp was teaching and it was what He taught St John and what St John taught St Polycarp. If St Polycarp was teaching heresy, and Christ didn’t see it, then Christ is not God and this would end the discussion. But, not only did Christ mention Smyrna in the revelation but He praised it.
If Christians believe that grape juice and crackers are OK, and that God is happy with the believers in disunity, they’ve stop long before reading very important 1st century doctrines. This would be like discounting the books of Moses at the time of Christ because the Pharisees only wanted to believe writings from King David on. It’s pure foolishness.
Just a final thought. The Gospel of John, chapter 6, Christ is speaking to the Jews about Himself being the Manna from Heaven. He tells them that they must eat His body and drink His blood or they have no life in them. The Jews had no mistake what Christ was talking about. They would not have left Him if he was talking about grape juice and crackers. It was against Mosaic Law to do what Christ was asking, and since they put the law above God (and did not see Christ as the Lord, not only of the Sabbath, but of all life), they did not feel that He had the authority to ask such a thing. What is interesting about this discourse is the verse John 6:66 “…and they walked with Him no more”. Understanding that 666 was penned by St John many centuries before verse numbers were added, it is strikingly coincidental that this passage depicts the walk of those who in finality turn their backs on He who is the “Way, the Truth, and the Life”, and over such an important issue. St Polycarp teaches this truth and Christ gives this doctrine the highest marks… The words Christ uses are the same words as those in the Garden of Eden, “My body is real food…” And just as important for those that read Greek (or on faith for those that don’t), Christ uses one of the strongest statement that can be phrased in Greek (in the Gospel of John) 7 times. “Amen, Amen I say to you, unless you do this…you have no life in you”. Most Protestants will recognize the one associated with “Amen, Amen I say to you, unless you are born again…” but how many know that Christ uses this same language concerning communion? One must remember that as you progress through the Gospel of John, greater and greater mysteries are being revealed; don’t stop at chapter 3, or skip over to the Passover meal, this is important stuff that in the words of our Lord must be done to have life. Faith is nothing without works (James), the Greek word for believe is a very active verb, it is not an intellectual believe in something, but a real manifestation of the object for which you believe (and all the He taught).
One must be careful not to try to understand this in the context of western thought such as the doctrines of transubstantiation (again a Roman error), but in a more spiritual and mystical sense that still exists, and has always existed in the Orthodox Church. The bottom line…God says it is so, therefore I believe it, even if I cannot understand that which is unfathomable and incomprehensible.
reminds me of when I told my friends from the "non-denominational" Christian church that I was becoming a Catholic.
So, the wife said, you're going to renounce Jesus?
Her position was that, since Catholics "worship Mary," I was renouncing Jesus.
I wonder how hard God laughs sometimes...
too funny!
well, I don't think it's handled like a Rosary -- but it certainly seems like an icon, and most allegedly non-denominational worship programs are loaded with icons and traditions -- written and unwritten. Most have their own "popes," personalities that are seen to be speaking in the place of God, such as pastors or denominational leaders.
Catholic convert speaking here: one day I woke up and realized how many liturgical things we did in our Charismatic congregation while speaking in code against Catholicism. The scales fell off.
The Church has always held that the whole OT is to be interpreted in the light of Christ; and in particular the Psalms have four levels of meaning: the literal, the allegorical, the moral/didactic, and the anagogical/mystical.
Anagogically, when you take a look at Psalm 45, you can see it's a Psalm of the King and the Queen. The first 8 verses to the King, Jesus, the most excellent of men... God!... whose throne is for ever and ever.
From verse 9 is to the Queen... and the last verse, 17, is strikingly similar to the one applied by Virgin Mary to herself in Luke 1:48, "I will perpetuate your memory through all generations; therefore the nations will praise you for ever and ever."
But in the Bible all prophecies applied to Mary apply also to the Church, and vice versa... in Gen.1:15, in Revelation 12:1-5... so, the Queen is Mary, and it is the Church of Christ!.
It is like a riddle: The Bride of the King is also the Daughter of the King, and the Mother of the King... it is Mary!, the Mother of Jesus, the Spouse of the Spirit, the Daughter of the Father... and it is the Church!: The bride of Jesus, the mother of Jesus who came from the People of God, and the daughter of Jesus who founded his Church!.
This prophecy of verse 17, has been fulfilled with superabundance in Virgin Mary, From now on all generations will call me blessed (Lk.1:48).
... And in every second, of these two thousand years, somebody in the world has been repeating the words of Luke 1:42, to bless the Mother and Her Son, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus"...
Psalm 45: 1 My heart is stirred by a noble theme as I recite my verses for the king; my tongue is the pen of a skillful writer.
2 You are the most excellent of men, and your lips have been anointed with grace, since God has blessed you forever.
6 Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 Daughters of kings are among your honored women; at your right hand is the royal bride in gold of Ophir.
10 Listen, O daughter, consider and give ear: Forget your people and your father's house.
11 The king is enthralled by your beauty; honor him, for he is your lord.
13 All glorious is the princess within her chamber ; her gown is interwoven with gold.
14 In embroidered garments she is led to the king; her virgin companions follow her and are brought to you.
15 They are led in with joy and gladness; they enter the palace of the king.
17 I will perpetuate your memory through all generations; therefore the nations will praise you for ever and ever.
---------------------------------------------------------
To make it real simple: the human race was created in the image and likeness of God. Most of us are pretty smeared, but she was and is such a good un-smeared image that the Archangel Gabriel announced what her name is in the mind of God: "Full of Grace." (In Greek, Panagia. In Latin, Gratia Plena.)
And conceived Jesus under the power of the Holy Spirit: she can be called the Bride of the Spirit. (As in Revelation 22:17: "The Spirit and the Bride say, "Come.")
And hey, she's Jesus' Mom! And Jesus is King, right? So she's the Queen Mother.
I love this. It is so beautiful, how God exalts the lowly. Sure he'd make this lowly handmaid his Queen. Re-read that Magnificat thing. So beautiful, so beautiful!
So you agree that Mary is mother to ALL Christians"
Let's see the whole thing, John 19:25-
Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, "Dear woman, here is your son," and to the disciple, "Here is your mother." From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.
This is sufficient to say: If you are a Christian that God loves, then Mary is your mother and you are her son. Here is what she says at the beginning of His public ministry, not at her command, but at her request, John 2:4-5"Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied, "My time has not yet come." His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."
Let's ad some more.
Gen3:20 Adam named his wife Eve, [~living] because she would become the mother of all the living.
1 Cor 15:45-47 So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"[Gen. 2:7]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.
The Life giving Spirit called the mother of all the living(those He loved) Mary. What God says, and I agree is:
The mother of all the living is Mary, including Christians.
Matthew 12:32
" Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
Ah, this is too bad.
I think their entire policy statement is rather strange personally. I am not sure I would be offended to not be included in their definition of Christian.
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