Posted on 07/15/2005 11:29:25 AM PDT by nypokerface
JACKSON, Miss. - A Christian adoption agency that receives money from Choose Life license plate fees said it does not place children with Roman Catholic couples because their religion conflicts with the agency's "Statement of Faith."
Bethany Christian Services stated the policy in a letter to a Jackson couple this month, and another Mississippi couple said they were rejected for the same reason last year.
"It has been our understanding that Catholicism does not agree with our Statement of Faith," Bethany director Karen Stewart wrote. "Our practice to not accept applications from Catholics was an effort to be good stewards of an adoptive applicant's time, money and emotional energy."
Sandy and Robert Steadman, who learned of Bethany's decision in a July 8 letter, said their priest told them the faith statement did not conflict with Catholic teaching.
Loria Williams of nearby Ridgeland said she and her husband, Wes, had a similar experience when they started to pursue an adoption in September 2004.
"I can't believe an agency that's nationwide would act like this," Loria Williams said. "There was an agency who was Christian based but wasn't willing to help people across the board."
The agency is based in Grand Rapids, Mich., and has offices in 30 states, including three in Mississippi. Its Web site does not refer to any specific branch of Christianity.
Stewart told the Jackson Clarion-Ledger that the board will review its policy, but she didn't specify which aspects will be addressed.
The Web site says all Bethany staff and adoptive applicants personally agree with the faith statement, which describes belief in the Christian Church and the Scripture.
"As the Savior, Jesus takes away the sins of the world," the statement says in part. "Jesus is the one in whom we are called to put our hope, our only hope for forgiveness of sin and for reconciliation with God and with one another."
Sandy Steadman said she was hurt and disappointed that Bethany received funds from the Choose Life car license plates. "I know of a lot of Catholics who get those tags," she said.
She added: "If it's OK to accept our money, it should be OK to open your home to us as a family."
Bethany is one of 24 adoption and pregnancy counseling centers in Mississippi that receives money from the sale of Choose Life tags, a special plate that motorists can obtain with an extra fee.
Of $244,000 generated by the sale of the tags in 2004, Bethany received $7,053, said Geraldine Gray, treasurer of Choose Life Mississippi, which distributes the money.
"It is troubling to me if they are discriminating based on only the Catholics," Gray said.
I have al;ready laid down those thoughts on previous posts and many times on this thread.
Please go to the links I provided, they explain what I believe much better, and you will find it a blessing if you actually fill out the Bible Study
One of the most ridiculous and bigoted comments I have ever read. For the above and other reasons, you have lost all my respect and any credibility that you might have had. It is people like YOU, who deserve to be shunned.
I'll take the writings of St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Augustine over someone like you like any day.
Wow, that's a pretty bigoted statement.
And I am not concerned about your other reasons that you dreamt up.
And you got my opinion.
I amnot going to keep re-typing things.
I sent you to some place very special that will explain it in detail.
And if I sent you there, then I guess I am in agreement with it.
I own my own copy of the Catechism, and also know where it is online, and did quote RCC doctrine accurately, maybe it is you who does not know that.
What follows is a short section of direct quotes that are many times posted here which clearly show the official doctrine of the RCC which you as a RCC claim to believe. These are clearly not defensible from Scripture, in fact, the Catechism is thicker and more wordy than the Bible itself I think!
Starting in 1257 ( http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a1.htm#VI ) the OFFICIAL RCC doctrine states that Baptism in necessary for Salvation, and that is against Scripture, totally. Baptism is what a saved person does and is NEVER singled out or expounded upon as a need for forgiveness, yet the RCC clearly states it is:
1263 By Baptism all sins are forgiven, original sin and all personal sins, as well as all punishment for sin.66 In those who have been reborn nothing remains that would impede their entry into the Kingdom of God, neither Adam's sin, nor personal sin, nor the consequences of sin, the gravest of which is separation from God.
That is blasphemey. To state that a physical act, WORKS in other words, is needed to pay for sins is to call the Bible a lie, for the Bible says that Jesus's death on the Cross paid the penalty for our sins, not our Baptism.
That the Roman Catholic Church does NOT believe in salvation by grace alone through faith alone by the finished atonement of Jesus Christ alone is evident in the following indisputable facts:
JUSTIFICATION BY GRACE ALONE DENIED BY TRENT
At the Council of Trent (1545-1563), the declarations of which are still in force, the Roman Catholic Church formally condemned the biblical doctrine of faith alone and grace alone. Consider the following declarations of Trent:
"If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is this confidence alone that justifies us, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Sixth Session, Canons Concerning Justification, Canon 12).
"If anyone says that the justice received is not preserved and also not increased before God through good works, but that those works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained, but not the cause of its increase, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Sixth Session, Canons Concerning Justification, Canon 24).
JUSTIFICATION BY GRACE ALONE DENIED BY VATICAN II
In its most formal and authoritative statements since Trent, Rome has continued to deny that salvation is by grace alone through Christ's atonement alone through faith alone without works or sacraments. Consider the following statements of the authoritative Vatican II Council of the mid-1960s, called by Pope John Paul XXIII and attended by more than 2,400 Catholic bishops --
"For it is the liturgy through which, especially in the divine sacrifice of the Eucharist, 'the work of our redemption is accomplished,' and it is through the liturgy, especially, that the faithful are enabled to express in their lives and manifest to others the mystery of Christ and the real nature of the true Church" (Vatican II, Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, Introduction, para. 2).
"As often as the sacrifice of the cross by which 'Christ our Pasch is sacrificed' (1 Cor. 5:7) is celebrated on the altar, the work of our redemption is carried out" (Vatican II, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Chapter 1, 3, p. 324).
"... [Christ] also willed that the work of salvation which they preached should be set in train through the sacrifice and sacraments, around which the entire liturgical [ritualistic] life revolves. Thus by Baptism men are grafted into the paschal mystery of Christ. ... They receive the spirit of adoption as sons" (Vatican II, Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, Chap. 1, I, 5,6, pp. 23-24).
"From the most ancient times in the Church good works were also offered to God for the salvation of sinners, particularly the works which human weakness finds hard. Because the sufferings of the martyrs for the faith and for God's law were thought to be very valuable, penitents used to turn to the martyrs to be helped by their merits to obtain a more speedy reconciliation from the bishops. Indeed, the prayers and good works of holy people were regarded as of such great value that it could be asserted that the penitent was washed, cleansed and redeemed with the help of the entire Christian people" (Vatican II, Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, Apostolic Constitution on the Revision of Indulgences, chap. 3, 6, pp. 78,79).
ROME DENIES SALVATION BY GRACE ALONE IN ITS DEFINITION OF JUSTIFICATION
Rome's gospel is a confused combination of faith plus works, grace plus sacraments, Christ plus the church. It redefines grace to include works. It confuses justification with sanctification. It confuses imputation with impartation. It views justification not as a once-for-all legal declaration whereby the sinner is declared righteous before God and is granted eternal life as the unmerited gift of God, but as a PROCESS whereby the sinner is gradually saved through participation in the sacraments. There is no eternal security in the Roman gospel because salvation allegedly depends partially upon a man's works. According to Roman Catholic theology, Christ purchased salvation and gave it to the Catholic Church to be distributed to men through its sacraments. This is not only a false gospel, it is a blasphemous usurpation of Christ's position as only Lord and Savior and Mediator. The authoritative Addis and Arnold Catholic Dictionary, with the Imprimature (ecclesiastical authorization for printing) of E. Morrough Bernard, 1950, says justification "consists, not in the mere remission of sins, but in the sanctification and renewal of the inner man by the voluntary reception of God's grace and gifts" This dictionary plainly states that the Roman Catholic doctrine of justification is contrary to that of the Reformation, noting that "the Council of Trent was at pains to define most clearly and explicitly the Catholic tradition on the matter, placing it in sharp opposition to the contrary tenets of the Reformers." Our Sunday Visitor's Catholic Encyclopedia, published in 1991, defines justification as "THE PROCESS by which a sinner is made righteous, pure and holy before God." "Justification in the Catholic Tradition comes about by means of faith in Christ, AND in a life of good works lived in response to God's invitation to believe. ... That works are clearly required in the New Testament for union with Christ is seen in the many parables such as the Good Samaritan, Lazarus and Dives, and others" (emphasis added).
ROME DENIES SALVATION BY GRACE ALONE IN DOZENS OF OTHER WAYS
Not only in most authoritative declarations and not only by its definition of justification, but in dozens of other ways Rome denies the once-for-all sufficiency of Christ's atonement, His sole mediatorship, and the doctrine of salvation through faith alone by grace alone without works.
Rome denies justification by grace alone BY ITS DOCTRINE OF BAPTISMAL REGENERATION. The New Catholic Catechism (1994) dogmatically declares: "The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are 'reborn of water and the Spirit.' God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism..." (1257).
Rome denies justification by grace alone BY ITS DOCTRINE OF THE MASS, by claiming that in the mass "the sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated" and "the work of our redemption is carried out" (Vatican II, Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy).
Rome denies justification by grace alone BY ITS DOCTRINE OF THE SACRAMENTS:"The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. ... The fruit of the sacramental life is that the Spirit of adoption makes the faithful partakers in the divine nature by uniting them in a living union with the only Son, the Saviour" (New Catholic Catechism, 1129).
Rome denies justification by grace alone BY ITS DOCTRINE OF PURGATORY, claiming that "the doctrine of purgatory clearly demonstrates that even when the guilt of sin has been taken away, punishment for it or the consequences of it may remain to be expiated or cleansed" (Vatican II, Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy).
Rome denies justification by grace alone and the sole Mediatorship of Christ BY ITS DOCTRINE OF CONFESSION. "One who desires to obtain reconciliation with God and with the Church, must confess to a priest all the unconfessed grave sins he remembers after having carefully examined his conscience" (New Catholic Catechism, 1493). "Individual and integral confession of grave sins followed by absolution remains the only ordinary means of reconciliation with God and with the Church" (New Catholic Catechism, 1497). "The sacrament of Penance restores and strengthens in members of the Church who have sinned the fundamental gift of ... conversion to the kingdom of Christ, which is first received in Baptism" (Vatican II, Decree on Confession for Religious).
Rome denies justification by grace alone and the sole Mediatorship of Christ BY ITS DOCTRINE OF THE PAPACY: "For 'God's only-begotten Son ... has won a treasure for the militant Church ... he has entrusted it to blessed Peter, the key-bearer of heaven, and to his successors who are Christ's vicars on earth, so that they may distribute it to the faithful for their salvation'" (ellipsis are in the original) (Vatican II, Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, Apostolic Constitution on the Revision of Indulgences, Chap. 4, 7, p. 80).
Rome denies justification by grace alone and the sole Mediatorship of Christ BY ITS PRIESTHOOD: "The purpose then for which priests are consecrated by God through the ministry of the bishop is that they should be made sharers in a special way in Christ's priesthood and, by carrying out sacred functions, act as his ministers who through his Spirit continually exercises his priestly function for our benefit in the liturgy. By Baptism priests introduce men into the People of God; by the sacrament of Penance they reconcile sinners with God and the Church; by the Anointing of the sick they relieve those who are ill; and especially by the celebration of Mass they offer Christ's sacrifice sacramentally" (Vatican II, Decree on the Ministry and Life of Priests, chap. 2, I, 5, p. 781).
Rome denies justification by grace alone and the sole Mediatorship of Christ BY ITS DOCTRINE OF MARY: "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope and burning charity in the Saviour's work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace" (New Catholic Catechism, 968). "... Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us gifts of eternal salvation. ... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix" (New Catholic Catechism, 969).
Rome denies justification by grace alone and the sole Mediatorship of Christ BY ITS DOCTRINE OF THE SAINTS: "Thus recourse to the communion of saints lets the contrite sinner be more promptly and efficaciously purified of the punishments for sin" (New Catholic Catechism, 1475).
Rome denies justification by grace alone and the sole Mediatorship of Christ BY ITS DOCTRINE OF FORGIVENESS THROUGH THE CHURCH: "There is no offense, however serious, that the Church cannot forgive. ... Christ who died for all men desires that in his Church the gates of forgiveness should always be open to anyone who turns away from sin" (New Catholic Catechism, 982).
Rome denies justification by grace alone BY ITS DOCTRINE OF INDULGENCES: "An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints. ... Indulgences may be applied to the living or the dead" (New Catholic Catechism, 1471).
CONCLUSION
Rome has not changed its doctrinal position or its claims to be the one, true, holy, apostolic church. It is engaged, rather, in a clever ploy. It is using the ecumenical movement to bring the separated sons home to the papa (which is the meaning of the term pope), and it is succeeding brilliantly. The amazing fact is that Rome has not hidden its goal in ecumenical relations. Consider the following statement from Vatican II:
"The term 'ecumenical movement' indicates the initiatives and activities encouraged and organized, according to the various needs of the [Roman] Church and as opportunities offer, to promote Christian unity. ... The results will be that, little by little, as the obstacles to perfect ecclesiastical communion are overcome, ALL CHRISTIANS WILL BE GATHERED IN A COMMON CELEBRATION OF THE EUCHARIST, INTO THE UNITY OF THE ONE AND ONLY CHURCH, which Christ bestowed on his Church from the beginning. THE UNITY, WE BELIEVE, SUBSISTS IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AS SOMETHING SHE CAN NEVER LOSE" (emphasis added) (Vatican II, Decree on Ecumenism, chap. 1, 4, p. 416).
For those who claim to be Evangelical Catholics and who claim to believe that salvation is by grace alone, I say you are deceiving yourself and others by remaining in the Roman Catholic Church which explicitly denies what you claim to believe. God’s curse is upon those who preach a false gospel and Rome certainly falls under that curse. The Bible warns that those who affiliate with error become partakers with that error.
Do not be deceived, friends.
"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" (Revelation 18:4).
"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (2 Timothy 4:2-4).
I've been reading your anti-Catholic comments for several years. It is clear your bigoted opinion of Catholics, was formulated first. Then you looked for "evidence" to justify your malformed beliefs.
It is people like you who foster animosity between Catholics and protestants and NOT by any stretch of the imagination are such attitudes "good." You should likewise ask for God's forgiveness for your horribly misguided and evil thoughts as well as your bearing false witness against your fellow Christians. I was raised to have respect for people in other religions and for their religion. YOU apparently were not.
And NO I don't DREAM ANYTHING up. Unfortunately, I see reality quite clearly.
I consider people such as yourself an enemy NOT only to the Catholic faith, but to people of goodwill of all faiths.
And there will come a day when you answer to God not only for your bigotry, but it's propagation.
To state that Catholics, whose adoration and worship of Jesus Christ, is central to their faith, are NOT Christians is not only UNTRUE but DELUSIONAL. As a Catholic, I am DEEPLY offended by this latest of your declarations against us. It is WAY over the line. I suggest some introspection and self-examination is in order.
Guess again if you think Catholics like myself and others are going to bear such attacks silently. We're NOT.
wow, you really are on a roll, arent you?
In each of my posts I have clearly stated what the Bible teaches and have clearly stated what official RCC doctrine is.
If you have a problem with what I post, then back it up with Scrtipture or admit that you cant.
You seem to always be angry at something about me, and it started way before I showed I was someone who believed the Bible; you have previously claimed I was some FR elite and was against you, that I knew secrets about FR and was holding down you and your brother and generally and how people on FR were against you and your brother, sent me hatemail through Freepmail that was out of this world.
Now, you attack me for sticking up for my faith, just what is wrong with you?
Roman Catholicism teaches that salvation is available only through the Catholic church:
"The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: 'For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained.'" Pg. 215, #816
Here, the 1994 catechism reaffirms the existing teaching of Vatican II, that salvation can be obtained only through the Roman Catholic church. The catechism leaves no doubt that the Catholic church is necessary for salvation:
"...all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation..." Pg. 224, #846
Past popes have taught this doctrine, as have previous catechisms and church fathers. Here is but one example…
On May 7, 2001, Pope John Paul II told 2,000 youth gathered at the Greek-Melkite Cathedral of Damascus that "you cannot be a Christian if you reject the Church founded on Jesus Christ."1
Catholic friend, you personally may not believe this, but your pope does. And it is an official doctrine of your religion.
If you check God's Word on this subject, you will not find a single verse requiring one to go through a church to be saved. In fact, the opposite is taught:
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:13
When Jesus died on the cross, He paid the full price for the sins of all mankind. According to God's Word, anyone can go directly to Him for salvation. Jesus Himself announced that:
"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 3:36
Jesus preached:
"He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life…" John 5:24
"He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." John 6:47
Jesus repeats this message in John 3:16, 3:18, and 6:40. If the Catholic church really is necessary for salvation, then Jesus Christ is a liar.
The Apostle Paul gives step by step instructions on how to be saved:
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:9-10
Notice, no church is required. So if Catholicism is right, then the Apostle Paul is also a liar. And since he wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is a liar as well.
"But as many as received (trusted in) him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name." John 1:12
John says you become God's child by believing in Jesus Christ. If this Catholic doctrine is true, then John's name must be added to the list of liars.
But John is not a liar. Jesus never requires a church for salvation:
"To him (Jesus) give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." Acts 10:43
The key is belief in Christ, not a church:
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth…" Romans 1:16
According to Paul, Timothy needed faith in Christ to be saved, not a church:
"And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus." 2 Timothy 3:15
When the Philippian prison guard asked Paul, "What must I do to be saved?," did Paul answer, "You must become a member of the Roman Catholic church?" No, he responded:
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved…" Acts 16:31
Remember when Jesus was hanging on the cross? The thief on the cross next to Him cried out:
"…Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom." Luke 23:42
When that dying sinner uttered those words of faith, Jesus responded by saying:
"To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." Luke 23:43
Salvation is in Christ… not in a church.
The catechism claims salvation comes "…through Christ's Catholic Church alone…" But God's Word says it is obtained through Jesus Christ:
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23
"… God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him." 1 John 4:9
Only Christ can offer us salvation because He alone shed His blood for us:
"Much more then, being now justi-fied by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." Romans 5:9
No church can offer salvation. Only Jesus can:
"Neither is there salvation in any other (except Jesus): for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:10, 12
Since the Bible and Catholicism clearly disagree, here are some questions you must answer:
• If the Catholic church is necessary to escape hell and reach heaven, would not God have clearly stated it in His Word… at least once?
• Why would Jesus repeatedly lie by saying that salvation is available through faith in Him?
•Are you willing to call Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Apostle Paul and the Apostle John all liars? For your religion to be right, you must.
• For centuries, Bible believing Christians have contended that this unbiblical doctrine was created to keep members in bondage. Was it?
• Lastly, you must again answer the question, "Which will I obey and serve, the traditions of men, or the Word of God?" You cannot say "both" because each says the other is wrong.
Someday you will stand face to face with Jesus Christ. You will look Him right in the eyes. You might want to start thinking about how you are going to tell the Lord that you rejected His teachings and obeyed the traditions of sinful men because you assumed He was lying.
"For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men…" Mark 7:81From article "Pope Meets with Youth of Various Christian Confessions," Vatican City, 5/7/01 (VIS) reported by the Catholic Information Network, 5/9/01, N. 86
To you, Jesus cannot be prayed to directly, you need or can go through dead peole to ask Him something that Bible Believers just pray directly to.
You bring a different Jesus , not the Jesus of the Bible.
To you, Jesus is in the wafer you take at Communion, and your RCC doctrine tells you that if you DONT take the wafer, then you dont get Jesus.
That is a different Jesus of the Bible.
< To you, as I heard from all my Catholic friend safter they Catechism on Wednesdays in elementary school, Jesus is quite mad and you need to pray to Mary to get Jesus to like you, to get Jesus to hear your prayer, for only after Jesus' mother asks Him will He be merciful to you.
And dont tell me otherwise, I heard all this all my life from all myCatholic Friends, I know what I was told and I know they all said the same thing.
We often hear from ecumenical circles that all professing Christians who "love Jesus" should get together. One problem with this is the Bible’s warnings that there are false christs. The Bible-believing Christian must always ask, “What Jesus do you worship?” Paul warned the believers at Corinth:
"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth ANOTHER JESUS, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive ANOTHER SPIRIT, which ye have not received, or ANOTHER GOSPEL, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him" (2 Corinthians 11:3,4).
Paul was concerned for the church at Corinth because it was carnal and the believers were weak. They were careless about false doctrine. They had a tolerant attitude toward error. They gave audience to false teachers instead of rejecting them.
This, at best, is the condition of the ecumenical crowd today. The Roman Catholic Church worships “Jesus,” but it is not the Jesus of the Bible. The Catholic Jesus is the wafer Jesus that is sacrificed repeatedly on Roman altars.
In the charismatic Catholic magazine New Evangelization 2000, a clear testimony of this Roman heresy was given. Consider the following carefully:
"Last year I spent a week at Our Lady of the Angels Monastery in Birmingham, Alabama, home of Mother Angelica's Eternal Word Television Network. Early one morning, a voice over the loudspeaker announced: ‘Mother asks everyone to leave the chapel immediately.' Outside, Mother Angelica explained that a possible gas leak had been discovered in the building. As Mother talked she kept looking toward the chapel, finally inquiring, ‘Where is Jesus? Where is Jesus?' Soon two sisters emerged from the chapel smiling, one carrying the Blessed Sacrament. ‘We've got him, Mother!' she cried. ‘Don't worry!’" (Keith Fournier, New Evangelization 2000, Issue 8, page 7; Fournier is Dean of Evangelization at the Catholic Franciscan University, Steubenville, Ohio)
One of the photos accompanying this article shows a priest placing a wafer on the lips of a woman and has the caption:
"Jesus is in my heart, on my mind and on my lips."
Note that the "Jesus" spoken of in this article is a wafer used in the Catholic mass. This is the "Jesus" of Mother Angelica. This is the "Jesus" of the Franciscan University of Steubenville.
Mother Teresa often testified that her Jesus is the wafer of the Mass. It is this host that the nuns of the Sisters of Charity are adoring 24 hours a day. Note the following statements that Mother Teresa made while addressing the Worldwide Retreat for Priests, October 1984, in Rome:
“I remember the time a few years back, when the president of Yeman asked us to send some of our sisters to his country. I told him that this was difficult because for so many years no chapel was allowed in Yemen for saying a public mass, and no one was allowed to function there publicly as a priest. I explained that I wanted to give them sisters, but the trouble was that, without a priest, without Jesus going with them, our sisters couldn’t go anywhere. It seems that the president of Yemen had some kind of a consultation, and the answer that came back to us was, ‘Yes, you can send a priest with the sisters!’ I was so struck with the thought that ONLY WHEN THE PRIEST IS THERE CAN WE HAVE OUR ALTAR AND OUR TABERNACLE AND OUR JESUS. Only the priest can put Jesus there for us. ... Jesus wants to go there, but we cannot bring him unless you first give him to us. This is why I love priests so much. We could never be what we are and do the things we do without you priests who first bring Jesus to us” (Mother Teresa, Be Holy: God’s First Call to Priests Today, edited by Tom Forrest, 1987, pp. 109, 111).
“One day she [a girl working in Calcutta] came, putting her arms around me, and saying, ‘I have found Jesus.’ ... ‘And just what were you doing when you found him?’ I asked. She answered that after 15 years she had finally gone to confession, and received Holy Communion from the hands of a priest. Her face was changed, and she was smiling. She was a different person because THAT PRIEST HAD GIVEN HER JESUS” (Mother Teresa, Be Holy, p. 74).
On a trip to Quebec in 1998, I had an opportunity to visit a cloistered convent. A pastor friend invited me to meet his relative who has been a Catholic nun for 60 years. I have visited Catholic shrines and churches in many parts of the world, including the Vatican, but I had never been inside a convent. This nun that we visited was 80 years old and she had lived most of her life shut away in a dim monastery. She could converse with us only from behind metal bars. There are even bars across the convent chapel, separating the nuns from the public. The nuns pray in the chapel by shifts around the clock. As you enter the chapel there is a sign which says, “You are entering to adore the Jesus-host.” Note how they make a direct connection between Jesus and the Catholic host.
On a trip to the Philippines in January 2004, I visited the Mega Mall in Manila and saw the “Chapel of the Eucharistic Lord.” This chapel is available so that Roman Catholics can more conveniently adore and pray to the wafer (the wafer of the Mass is also called the Eucharist), who is called “Lord.”
This is the "Jesus" of the Catholic Church. It is a false Christ, to say the least. Jesus Christ, the Lord of Glory, is not a piece of bread! He is not created by the prayers of a Roman priest. He is not so weak that He must be rescued from a burning building. His sacrifice was made once for all and cannot be repeated. Beware of Catholicism with its false Christ, its false gospel, and its false spirit. And don't be fooled by the biblical terms and evangelization programs being promoted by some Catholic groups. Catholicism knows nothing about the true Gospel and Bible evangelism.
If you refuse to read what I posted many times, it is not me who is loony
Race, if it's so clear, just cut and paste it, how hard can that be? LOl, I'm not asking for the world here Race, just your opinion on salvation doctrine.
since I did just that, I cut and pasted, what is your issue?
You claim there to be some inconsistency, post it yourself instead of making bland Kafka-esque accusations.
Kafka-esque accusations? LOl. Race, I can't find what you're talking about, can you just post it? Let me qualify, I don't want a rambling 15 page email, a concise paragraph would be a fine place to start.
then start by going to the links I alrteady provided whch you ignored.
Now, stop this tit-for-tat and actually read what I posted, ok?
thanks in advance...
I do not believe all translators are liars, it is just hard to not have a bais in some way you read the text, and that does not mean a bias to a doctrine, but a bias as to how you understand a word or two.
I would love to be able to read Koine Greek like a pro, but I am studying too much other thigns...like how to improve what i already am learnign on now!
Plus, while I prefer the KJV for an English translation, just to shock you all on this thread, I believe the Douay is a good translation in itself, not the best, ut good enough that someone whho picks it up can learn the Biblical plan for Salvation just by reading it.
Even the New World Translation has enough in it that is correct that a Jehovah's Witness can learn Salvation, they would just be awfully confused when reading everything else! That is one bad translation, bad enough to be labeled a lie, not just a bad translation.
I do believe you can be objective in translations, though, for the arguments here are not in translation, but in word usage. None of our arguments have to do with proper translation, just context of passages and whether the text in itself is the authority or is something outside of the text the authority.
Or, is it the readers reading comprehension that is the problem! :)
It says it in context.
first, a person has to believe. Since a baby does not even believe it has to eat or go to the bathroom,it only responds to pain and sights around itself, there is no way a baby can make a conscious decision to believe on the Lord.
Hence, there is no way infant baptism is Biblical.
No, the believers in Ephesus were never known as Catholic, neither were the believers in Thessalonika, neither were the Believers in Damascus.
In fact, NONE of the believers mentioned in the New Testament were ever known as CATHOLIC in the sense of Roman Catholic. We all know the original term Catholic meant universal, not related to Romanism. It referred to the universal body of Believers who placed their trust in Jesus Christ as their Saviour.
< If someone were to say that the body of believes in all the early Chruches were 'catholic' in the sense of being a part of the universal Chruch, that would be accurate, but to say they were Catholic related to what is called Roman Catholicism, that would be wrong.
LOLLOLLOLLOL!!!!! I am laughing so hard I have tears in my eyes. My but your IGNORANCE is showing. I pray directly to the ADULT Jesus DAILY as I have all my life; as we did and were taught to do in Catholic grade school; as do millions upon millions of Catholics across the world; as does the pope in Rome; as did my ancesters before me, some of them Protestant. Who told you that Catholics don't pray directly to Jesus??????
We also pray DIRECTLY to God The Father and to the Holy Spirit.
"you need or can go through dead peole to ask Him something that Bible Believers just pray directly to."
ADDITIONALLY to our direct prayers to the TRINITY, we ask for the intercession of the SAINTS, or the Blessed Virgin (not dead people in general - get it right) on our behalf, if we wish to. We don't "NEED" to nor do we "HAVE" to.
"To you, as I heard from all my Catholic friend safter they Catechism on Wednesdays in elementary school, Jesus is quite mad and you need to pray to Mary to get Jesus to like you, to get Jesus to hear your prayer, for only after Jesus' mother asks Him will He be merciful to you."
Utter and complete nonsense. Either YOU heard wrong or they heard wrong. ANOTHER way to Jesus is through HIS mother in ADDITION to praying to him directly.
"To you, Jesus is in the wafer you take at Communion, and your RCC doctrine tells you that if you DONT take the wafer, then you dont get Jesus.
Your ignorance and your poor understanding of our faith once again rears its ugly head. I never heard anything like the above in my 12 years of recieving Catholic teaching nor did I teach any such thing as a Catholic School Teacher for two years.
Jesus is FAR MORE than a WAFER to us. And the relationship we develop with him goes FAR DEEPER than HOLY Communion, though receiving him in this way is an important,vital and necessary PART of our relationship with him. As Catholics, we are required to regularly receive two sacraments (there are seven in all- Baptism, Confirmation, Confession,Holy Communion, Matrimony, Holy Orders, and Extremunction or the Sacrement of the Sick))Holy Communion and Confession and to attend mass every Sunday.
But our personal relationship with Jesus in addition to Holy Communion could not be obtained WITHOUT direct prayer to HIM.
The rest of your post is supposed proof that As Catholics Jesus is ONLY a wafer to us. We believe that in HOLY COMMUNION, we are receiving the BODY and BLOOD of Christ. That the "wafer" once blessed by the priest IS the BODY of CHRIST. That is by no means how we view Christ in his entirety. We pray to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, we pray to the Sacred Blood of Jesus. We pray to the INFANT Jesus. We pray to Jesus the man. We pray to Jesus in all his countless forms. And directly.
From reading your posts it is clear that you are WHOLLY ignorant of the Catholic Faith and its teachings which precludes REAL underanding and promulgates your bigotry. If your are going to spread anti-Catholic Propaganda, you SORLEY NEED to study Catholicism and take catechetical classes. Catholicism, far from being superficial as your comments suggest, is rife with depth and meaning. As such you haven't even a vague notion about how unknowlegable, ignorant and foolish your posts sound. Obviously, you don't know what the heck you are talking about. THAT Race is the epitomy of arrogance. You will answer to God for all of it rest assured.
You express a strong bigotry about something you CLEARLY don't understand, even a little. Such is the root cause of most bigotry. I urge and invite you to take some CATHOLIC Religion courses at a GOOD Catholic College. Then read some GOOD books about Catholicism.
Your ignorance, given the incredibly knowlegeable Catholic posters on this forum is remarkably stunning. I am MOST embarrassed for you. In light of that fact, if you had an inkling, you would be particularly ashamed and humiliated by such ill-informed posts. Sadly, as evidenced by your relentless commentary on the subject, you aren't.
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