Vanity: Dad's conversations with Muslim shop owner about London bombing (chilling wake up call)

vanity | 9 July 2005 | NZerFromHK

[NZerFromHK]

My father owns a business in the CBD area here in Auckland. We have a shop selling Persian rugs next to us and the owner is Iranian himself. He is a moderate Muslim (yep, the MSM definition of it no less) and seems to be very nice to us and other nearby shops' owners. Dad had this conversation with the owner yesterday regarding the London bombing:

Dad: Did you read the papers this morning?

Owner: Yes, a big news event.

Dad: It's sad, isn't it?

Owner: Well, the British got it upon themselves. You know that Americans and British have killed many of us Muslims!

Dad: Do you really mean it? All the people died there are innocent deaths!

Owner: But they have killed many Muslims as a nation!

Dad:...

Owner: So, what do you think about it.

Dad: It's a complicated matter.

(And then he switched to another topic)

And he was fuming over dinner last night. He is a conservative like me, but because he doesn't want to get into argument due to traditional Chinese sense of politeness in conversation, he did not refute the shop owner's words in his face.

It serves as a wake up call for me. I have always imagined the moderate Muslims know the stakes, but now I have to reevaluate whether I could trust even many of the moderate Muslims in light of this conversation.

[OKSooner]

FWIW, I got the same reaction from moderate muslims here in Oklahoma on September 14th, 2001.

Guys who are educated and mainstream citizens otherwise. One guy has a Master's Degree and owns a business, the other a golf coach at a local country club at the time.

Former best friends.

[muawiyah]

They do.

If we had not personally encountered this blind hatred of East Asians on the part of Iranians before many times we wouldn't believe it possible ~ but, alas, it is.

[pctech]

Excellent point. Much as I hate for FEMA to have the power they have, right now would be an excellent time to use them on the Islamic hords in the US.

[SunnySide]

" but now I have to reevaluate whether I could trust even many of the moderate Muslims in light of this conversation."

What's to re-evaluate? Muslims loath jews and christians, basically any religion that is NOT female oppressing muslim. How many ways do muslims have to illustrate it, write about it, speak about it to non muslims in order for non muslims to GET IT ? It's non muslims who insist on remaining PC apathetic about it until a bomb drops on them and kills them.

[SauronOfMordor]

Behind closed doors, there ARE no moderate Muslims

Central to Islam, is that only Muslims count. Any act by a Muslim against an infidel is no big deal. No act by an infidel against a Muslim is tolerable, even in retaliation or even self defense against a violent act by a Muslim

In Muslim countries, woe to any dhimmi (non-Muslim 2nd class citizen) who defends himself against being struck by a Muslim. Especially notice the last quote below, from out of their own "holy" books

From my copy of the Koran:
 

Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day ... until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low
            Surah IX:29

O ye who believe! Choose not for friends such of those who received the Scriptures before you
        Surah V:57

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush...
        Surah IX:5

And slay them wherever ye find them ... Such is the reward of disbelievers.
        Surah II:191
 

The Sunnah is also a central document of Islam

Sunnah Volume 4, Book 52, Number 53:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet said, "Nobody who dies and finds good from Allah (in the Hereafter) would wish to come back to this world even if he were given the whole world and whatever is in it, except the martyr who, on seeing the superiority of martyrdom, would like to come back to the world and get killed again (in Allah's Cause)."

Sunnah Volume 4, Book 52, Number 63:

Narrated Al-Bara:

A man whose face was covered with an iron mask (i.e. clad in armor) came to the Prophet and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Shall I fight or embrace Islam first? "The Prophet said, "Embrace Islam first and then fight." So he embraced Islam, and was martyred. Allah's Apostle said, A Little work, but a great reward. "(He did very little (after embracing Islam), but he will be rewarded in abundance)."

The Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

The Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "The (Final) Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 196:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)"

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 256:

Narrated As-Sab bin Jaththama:

The Prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." I also heard the Prophet saying, "The institution of Hima [sanctuary; inviolate zone] is invalid except for Allah and His Apostle."

[ translation: the women and children of infidels are acceptable "collateral damage". A Muslim has no need to avoid killing them while attacking infidels (as the Palestinian suicide bombers demonstrate repeatedly) ]

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 265:

Narrated Al-Bara bin Azib:

Allah's Apostle sent a group of the Ansar to Abu Rafi. Abdullah bin Atik entered his house at night and killed him while he was sleeping.

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 268:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle called,: "War is deceit".

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 271:

Narrated Jabir:

The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Ka'b bin Ashraf (i.e. a Jew)." Muhammad bin Maslama replied, "Do you like me to kill him?" The Prophet replied in the affirmative. Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say what I like." The Prophet replied, "I do (i.e. allow you)." [ie, it’s OK to use lies and deception to get close to an enemy you want to kill]

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 280:

Narrated Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri:

When the tribe of Bani Quraiza was ready to accept Sad's judgment, Allah's Apostle sent for Sad who was near to him. Sad came, riding a donkey and when he came near, Allah's Apostle said (to the Ansar), "Stand up for your leader." Then Sad came and sat beside Allah's Apostle who said to him. "These people are ready to accept your judgment." Sad said, "I give the judgment that their warriors should be killed and their children and women should be taken as prisoners." The Prophet then remarked, "O Sad! You have judged amongst them with (or similar to) the judgment of the King Allah."

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 283:

Narrated Abu Juhaifa:

I asked Ali, "Do you have the knowledge of any Divine Inspiration besides what is in Allah's Book?" 'Ali replied, "No, by Him Who splits the grain of corn and creates the soul. I don't think we have such knowledge, but we have the ability of understanding which Allah may endow a person with, so that he may understand the Qur'an, and we have what is written in this paper as well." I asked, "What is written in this paper?" He replied, "(The regulations of) blood-money, the freeing of captives, and the judgment that no Muslim should be killed for killing an infidel."

[sandydipper]

We have to hunt them down and kill them - kill them all. Kill their children - kill their wives - then burn their houses and walk away.

[SauronOfMordor]

But let's face facts: It's members of one group of people who are perpetrating this mass murder. It's not Indian Muslims or African Muslims-- It's Arab Muslims.

It's Arab Muslims who did the Bali bombing in Indonesia?

It's Arab Muslims who are actively killing people in southern Philippines?

It's Arab Muslims who are engaged in killing in southern Thailand?

The Chechen Muslims who killed all those kids in Russia are Arab?

[SauronOfMordor]

This is the reason why calling Islam a religion of peace is so wrong.

Islam is NOT a religion of peace. the world "Islam" does not translate as "Peace". It translates as "surrender" -- a crucial difference.

There are two kinds of peace: the peace of freedom and the "peace" of surrender and submission. Islam is the latter.

When you have a woman struggling against a rapist, there are two main endings to that struggle: she either drives him off, or she submits to rape. Both end the conflict, but only the first is a desirable ending

[righttackle44]

"It's worth noting, however, that the original post was about a conversation with a Persian, and the Persians are of course not Arabs."

Thank you. The issue is religion and convictions and bombings., not ethnicity. There are Arabs and Persians who are Christians. His post is very racist. Your explanation puts it into perspective.

[SauronOfMordor]

Just like with other vicious cancers, the nuclear treatment is only one PROVEN to work every time. (Radiation therapy).

It makes a good bumper sticker: "Islam is a cancer best treated with radiation therapy"

[Jackknife]

Neal Boortz just wrote a piece for his e-letter about this very thing. Read it here.

[ttsmi]

You couldn't be more wrong - the terrorist are MUSLIMS - not arab or indian or paki muslims. The terror spread in Kashmir is entirely by paki muslims.