Posted on 06/24/2005 12:23:24 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
Just over half of Americans, 53 percent, now say the war in Iraq was a mistake - the highest percentage to say that in AP-Ipsos polling since December 2003, when two-thirds said the war in Iraq was the right thing to do.
The poll taken earlier this week also found that almost six in 10 disapprove of the Bush administration's conduct of the war, but about the same number say they would prefer keeping troops until the situation is stable instead of immediately withdrawing them from Iraq. Some other findings:
-Who most favors the war: Suburban men, Republicans.
-Who is most opposed: Those 65 and older, people living in urban areas, unmarried women, those who make less than $25,000 a year, Catholics and Democrats.
-War's conduct: Almost six in 10, 56 percent, said they don't approve of the way the Bush administration has conducted the war in Iraq, with 41 percent approving. Four of five Republicans, 79 percent, approved, while more than four of five Democrats, 84 percent disapprove.
-No hasty retreat: Given the choice of keeping troops in until the situation has stabilized or bringing troops home immediately, six in 10 said they want troops to stay and help stabilize Iraq. The percentage of people who want troops to come home immediately has increased to 37 percent, up from 28 percent in November.
The findings on the Iraq war come from a poll of 1,000 adults conducted June 20-22 for The Associated Press by Ipsos, an international polling firm. The margin of sampling error was plus or minus 3 percentage points, larger for subgroups.
This is not guerilla warfare. It is a group of terrorists who are supported by a tiny minority of Iraqis and are murdering much more Iraqi civilians than killing American soldiers.</p> This terrorist insurgency is concentrated in parts of Iraq and it has no political goal whatsoever. Murdering innocent civilians will lead to absolutely nothing but to the ultimate annihilation of these terrorists. They could not stop one single political milestone from happening in Iraq since the fall of Saddam terrorists regime. Our brave troops and the Iraqi security forces are killings and capturing thousands of these terrorists and eventually we will destroy the vast majority of them. By the end of this year this terrorist insurgency will be almost dead if not completely dead.
Blah blah blah blah....
Soon the Iraqi Constitution will pass, another election will occur, and sufficient Iraqi police and military will be trained to start drawing down US forces
You're absolutely right, and I think it's very astute of you to focus on those political developments. To your list I would add the increase in support for the new government now coming in from the international community, including countries who opposed the war. That support takes the form of hosting and attending conferences with the Iraqi leadership, supplying advisors, and of course cold hard cash.
The reason I say you're right to focus on the political developments is because it's the political side of the house that will win this war. I don't think this type of insurgency can be won by force of arms, because the goal is to get the citizens of Iraq to accept a new government and a new way of life. Influencing the way people think is not a military objective - the military's contribution is limited to providing security for the real victory, the political victory, to move forward.
I believe the tribes in Anbar Province have an almost unlimited supply of young men willing to fight and die, even without any hope of victory at all. Short of killing all of these men, the only way to win the war is to give them something brighter to look forward to.
I see many, many signs of positive political and economic developments in Iraq. I also see signs that even the supposedly "irreconciliable" hardliners are starting to come around and believe that there may be a place for them in the new Iraq. I think we're going to win, not by killing insurgents, but by building a government and a lifestyle in which an insurgency no longer makes any sense.
Sorry for long, somewhat disjointed post.
- Threetracks
It is going to take time.. Hell look what happened after our Independence war..
When the White House was lying about WMD's, they were boobs then, too.
The War on Terror ended at the border of Afghanistan. We should have concentrated on killing Osama first--cut off the head of the snake. Saddam was an enemy of the Taliban and Osama, not their ally.
Now that we're there, it's fighting forward: my home state carried out the same strategy when the South was invaded by the Federal Army way back when. Kill them in Iraq--but for God's sake, apply full force and KILL THEM. Stop these "patrols" and waiting for the Iraqi military to catch up with us. It'll take years, and the public hasn't got the patience. When the credit bubble bursts, and the boobs look up from their televisions, the pressure to withdraw will become irresistable.
You're right that capturing didn't end the insurgency. No amount of military action will ever end, because there seems to be an almost bottomless supply of young men willing to join the fight, even without hope of victory.
Military action can provide stability and security for the real victory, the political victory, to take place. That's why Fallujah couldn't be tolerated: No, reducing it won't end the insurgency. But leaving it as it was was an acceptable threat to the political progress that was being made.
There are only two ways to win a guerilla war. Either kill the entire population or don't get involved in one
Don't be ridiculous. Like any other type of warfare, guerilla wars are "politics by other means." There might not be an enemy army to destroy, or an objective to be secured, but there is still a victory to won, and just like in every other war, that victory is a victory of politics.
- ThreeTracks
You are absolutely right my fellow freeper.
Some people on FR have forgotten that the war in Iraq was the center issue for the vast majority of the endless savage attacks launched by liberals and their media whores against President Bush in 2004, and at the end they were utterly defeated. Why? Because people did not believe their lies, their distortions, and their polls, but they believed that President Bush is the right leader in this very crucial war on terror including the war in Iraq. They re-elected him with the largest number of votes cast for a President of the United States of America.
But it's fun blah, and passes the time. The Mrs. isn't due home for another hour.
Thank you. As usual it is expected to be a biased pol.
pol=poll :)
You're so right. We didn't become the United States with the signing of a document in 1776. It took decades of struggle, with Britain, with ourselves, to make us a real functioning nation.
And no sooner were we up on our feet then a civil war broke out.
All this in a country that was already "westernized." If it was so hard for us, imagine how it's going to be for the Iraqis. Luckily, they have most of the world community rooting for them and helping them out in one form or another. Let's hope!
- ThreeTracks
There is no reason to doubt the veracity of this poll.
There is a lot of airy talk about sealing the borders. Well, we just plain don't have the manpower to do that. And frankly, neither did Saddam Hussein because smuggling always flourished along the infiltration routes the jihadis are now using.
We have 145,000 troops fighting against an insurgency with vast funding and that has a recruiting pool consisting of 10% (and that is on the low side) of the Sunni males in the Muslim world. We kill 10, 20 replace them. And there are hundreds of thousands more in the pipeline. When we went into Iraq, I was afraid this would happen. As things stand now we will be losing 3-5 Americans forever. As General Abizaid plainly acknowledged the insurgency is NOT growing weaker at all. This low level war of attrition could last forever.
The American people have no intention of being there forever.
We cannot win this war. The only way this war can be done is if we just get out of the way and let the Shiite militias do a Hulagu on the Sunnis.
The political will doesn't exist here for the effort required at sealing that border. I won't say this war is lost: I feel that the delivery of Osama's head to the public will tip everything our way. but jerking around will just get us an extended stay in Fields of Pain, as my daddy described Viet Nam (he did three tours there).
I took a poll of myself and 100% of those polled expressed unwavering support for the war in Iraq.
Oh, by the way, 100% also said that polls were stupid.
So I guess that settles it.
DUNDERHEADS! Do they want more 9/11's???? That's exactly what we'll get.....idiot stupid COWARD Americans. Maybe we are too stupid to be free anymore.
You have totally missed what this number means.
The 61%, like the Vietnam antiwar opposition, had three components. And these components gave it an internal ambiguity.
Component 1 was pacifists. Joan Baez types.
Component 2 was ultraleftists, like the MoveOn crowd or Michael Moore. William Kunstler types.
These two groups are insignificant. What makes opposition to the war significant is Component 3. These are disillusioned hawks. People who supported the war in the beginning but now doubt it can be won at any acceptable cost. They don't believe the war was morally wrong so they will never join Components 1 and 2 in storming the Pentagon. They believe the US should cut its losses. The Clark Clifford and Robert McNamara types.
That is what is happenning now. People who had supported the war in the beginning are now questioning whether a low level war of attrition with an enemy with a limitless recruiting base is a good idea. And they are not willing to lose 5 Americans a day giving the Iraqis two years to raise an army.
Lies and defeatism like your cowardly statement must no stand.
First we are winning this war and we will win this war. This terrorist insurgency has a very little support in Iraq and concentrated in certain areas. The terrorists are murdering civilians tens folds than they are killings our troops or Iraqis security and the vast majority of Iraqis hate them for this. These terrorists are not able to achieve any political goal and they cannot stop any political achievement in Iraq. They could not stop the turning of sovereignty to Iraqis a year ago, they could not stop 8.5 millions Iraqis from voting for the first time in a free election, and they could not stop the formation of a new freely elected parliament and government. No one can win a war or anything for that matter by sending car bombs and suicide bombers to kill innocent civilians. We have killed and captured tens of thousands of these terrorists and at the end their supply will go down and they will become very insignificant.
Remember that from 2000 to 2003 we were seeing about two to three suicide bombers a week in Israel and now there is about one every month or even every few months. This is because Israel killed a lot of them and the Palestinians are in a very low supply of terrorists. This does not mean that a terrorist attack may not occur tomorrow or at anytime in Israel but there are much less terrorists attacks then before because there are much less terrorists willing to die.
This terrorist insurgency in Iraq will be almost dead if not dead by the end of this year.
Silly chest beating like yours ignores the fact that we are not at war with just an Iraqi insurgency. We are in a low level war of attrition with at least a quarter of the Sunni Islamic world.
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