Posted on 06/22/2005 7:05:49 AM PDT by Dog
Am I too late again?
I will behave myself and not say anything to the "PIQ's"* lest I be the zottee. However, feel free to speak for me!
'Face
*Posters In Question
All trolls must die.
LOL, no, not late yet.
Post 10 is CBart95 saying that discussing Durbin's comment isn't worthy of the forum.
(So far, he would have everyone discussing only things HE deemed worthy.)
And post 39 has Buke claiming that he is in the military and doesn't see the offense in Durbin's statement.
For the record, Buke's history is full of troll fishing expedition posts.
Quote:
"Let's find something else to piss and moan about. OK?"
Skip the posted articles you dislike ...It's so easy.
OK, Here is a reasonable response.
In February, Durbin read the FBI memo into the record, but did not make the offensive comments. This thread is discussing that February entry.
On June 14 Durbin, commenting on years-old alleged prisoner treatment, said: “… you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime--Pol Pot or others--that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners.”
On Thursday, he added: “I was attributing this form of interrogation to repressive regimes such as those that I noted”.
He was not discussing one incident. Well, in fact, he was discussing a very small number of incidents. But his speech (both in February and June) claimed that this FBI memo was not an abberation, but was the official policy of the United States. Now, at this point some would say "so what if it is, because what was described wasn't that bad on an occasional basis". But I'll ignore that. I just want to answer your claim that Durbin was saying that a couple of people screwed up.
If a couple of people screwed up, Durbin would have no reason to mention it on the Senate floor, or use it against Gonzalez. His claim is that these people did NOT screw up. His claim is that it is our policy to use torture.
Now, in case some of us don't think that what the FBI memo describes is all that bad, he lets us KNOW how bad it is, by comparing it to three brutal regimes. And his quote on Thursday, less well known, makes it clear that while he didn't mean to say we were KILLING people, he DID mean that our interrogation techniques were the same as those used by Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot.
He also made this statement, which I quote directly from AL JEZEERA, in order to show how bad this really is:
"This administration should apologise to the American people for abandoning the Geneva Conventions and authorising torture techniques”.
It isn't just the military that should be mad. Durbin has said that AMERICA (that is ALL OF US) is torturing people, just like the Nazis.
As I said in a column:
Senator Durbin’s statements fail the tests of proportionality, appropriateness, and propriety. First, any comparison to what Pol Pot (millions killed) Hitler (gassed millions), or Stalin (over 20 million dead) did to innocent civilians lacks all sense of proportionality. No sane person, hearing about incidents in Quantanamo, would equate them with Auschwitz, or the Gulags, or the killing fields of Cambodia. Our treatment of prisoners is in fact exemplary, as Durbin would know if he visited the prison (he hasn’t).
Second, Durbin quotes a single memo from an investigation, with no knowledge of its accuracy or context. A Senator interested in the truth, rather than political posturing, would question the FBI agent in a hearing to determine the whole truth. A hearing was scheduled for the next day, but Durbin would not wait for the appropriate venue.
Finally, a Senator has an obligation not to endanger Americans for political purposes. Durbin’s charges did not advance the debate. He admits he only used the example for dramatic effect. He knew what he was doing – playing to the Democrat’s anti-Bush base. He knew the effect of his remarks
Does that explain why you should be upset with his words? And does that explain why simply apologizing for making people mad is not sufficient?
On Thursday, Senator Warner spoke with Durbin on the record, telling him how bad his words were and asking him to apologize. If Senator Durbin was ever going to realise ON HIS OWN that his words were a mistake, he would have done so on Thursday. But he didn't, he was defiant.
And don't forget, after Durbin stood by his words on Thursday, Senator Reid got up and backed him 100%. So we have on record that Democrat leader defending words that Durbin has now apologized for. Where is Reid's apology for defending him?
I hope this explains it for you.
Definatley a tag team Darks....
I read your statements carefully as you addressed them to member Darksheare.
Firstly, thank you for serving this great nation. Though I can agree in what you say in principle, as being a geniune concern as how this issue is being treated, I will take a shot at it and perhaps answer representatively for many of our feelings on the issue.
Many of us belive, that this senator took it upon himself or in collaberation, to continue to raise the issues being examined at Gitmo, with a spirit not what many of us would hope, not becoming a US Senator. Obviously the ongoing examiniations of alleged abuses taking place at Gitmo will yield a final pronouncment on what was done illgeal or at least showing how some Americans may have or did, abuse their positions of responsiblity.
Now that being said, sir. Many of us feel the continued criticisms heaped upon the administration of not only how things are done in Gitmo, but in general how this administration and our DoD, and field commanders and chief of staffs, etc., have handled this war in Iraq and the current SASO, is less then dignified and often can be perceived as seditious in nature when viewed from the standpoint, any negative comments are viewed by radical fundelmentalists Muslims as an excuse to justify their continued belief that their cause is of a rightious nature.
In other words, add fuel to the fire and as in NAM give out false indications as to the will of the American voter to want to support a supposed war that is not justified to be in the United States's best interest. Truly, with the ongoing investigations into Gitmo activities, with a future set of guidelines being created to correct any wrongs that are alleged to have been commited eventually to be put in place, what good did these remarks made by senator Durbin do? As you made note, his remarks where echoed around the world to every Muslim with a slight leaning toward joining the jihad specifically against the USA, to perhaps go over the edge. The Arab and Persian world as North Vietnam take very carefull notice of the Amerian pulse, and how the federal level leadership act. The more negative things that ocme forth about issues in Iraq, the more it adds to the will of those radical Muslims that need excuses to continue to perpetrate their aims at enlisting new jihadist in all their forms and particular expertise to continue the struggle. For they see as in NAM that it is only a matter of time until America's will to continue the WOT, will fade away and they will get what they wanted.
Now in my humble opinion I sincerly believe this senator's remarks not only add fuel to discrediting this POTUS and your CIS, but to help the aim of every Muslim radical on this planet, in their bid to foul up the plans GWB has put in place regarding the WOT, and build a lasting democractic secular state in Iraq, then elsehwhere.
This is why many of us are very displeased in what the senator did. And face it, there simply is no comparision in what little abuse may be performed at Gitmo verse what the Russkies and Nazi's did in the past. His comments where totally out of line period. Do you agree that our guys and gales are no better then the Nazis? Remember he made a blanket statement. It was all inclusive as addressed.
CBart95, any relation to BartCop?
Looks like it to me.
You know what? I don't believe you. I think you're a troll. I don't think you're in the military. I think you are a liberal. Which might explain your diminished mental capacities since you need to have Durbins words and why they are harmful to the military and country explained to you.
MOST folks in the military and their families are LIVID over all of this. All real Americans are outraged.
You don't fit in either category, IMO.
OK...My two cents worth: (CBart95) Durbin's comment needs to be washed out of his mouth with soap. If he's not FOR America, he is against it, and that is obvious, the traitor.
As a military mother and widow, I resent the dickens out of anyone in uniform (Buke) who sees nothing wrong with Durbin's efforts to undermine the morale of America and her troops, no matter where they serve.
GAH!!! IDIOCY!!!
One would think that if the pig is going to wear lipstick, it would at least wear a flattering shade.....
"Dad I have done nothing to be ashamed of."
That is how bad this is affecting the men and women serving there.
No, in fact, that's just the opposite of what he did. Had Durbin truly wanted to make an inquiry, that's what he would have done - first, informally, by discussing the memo with whoever issued it within the FBI; then formally, by petitioning the majority and minority leaders on the US Senate Committee on Armed Services for the right to hold a sub-committee hearing, specifically on this memo and nothing else if he so chose.
Instead, Durbin chose to grandstand on the memo twice -- and if you hadn't noticed, you're in the thread that exposes his true purpose -- neatly mischaracterizing the contents in the memo each time in order to slander our military at Guantanamo Bay -- on the floor of the Senate. Why? Because those who effectively prop up the Democrat Party with seven and eight-figure $lush fund$ will brook nothing less than the consistent denigration of our United States Armed Forces. See Soros, et al.
If you don't care about that -- and a half-bird should have some rudimentary grasp of the uniquely Democrat politics of subversion of the Armed Forces over the past 35 years, unless you intend to retire a half-bird -- you're in the wrong business.
I can't believe you're serious about not understanding what this is all about.
How old are you?
Maybe the Air Force just doesn't have any real contact with the people...hmmmm?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1424993/posts
Durbin blames media for 'Nazi' flap
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1425138/posts
Durbin FBI Memo
http://thebluesite.com/video/hannitycolmesjune152005b.mpg
Video of Dick Durbin comparing US servicemen to nazis on the Senate floor...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1424850/posts
BUYER DEMANDS APOLOGY FROM ILLINOIS SENATOR
I cringe every time there is something negative said by our "leaders" to the media. Twenty years ago, it would have taken a while to travel around the world and upset the troops...now, in the age of satellite communications, every negative statement by any American is demoralizing to our fighting men and woman all over the world instantly. No wonder kids don't want to join the military...they BELIEVE this tripe!
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