Posted on 06/19/2005 8:30:04 PM PDT by anymouse
Citizens Against Government Waste (CAGW) today criticized plans to move forward with missions to the moon and Mars with an impending record deficit, chronic management problems at NASA, and unresolved questions about the missions’ cost and feasibility. NASA’s new administrator Michael Griffin has said that the space agency will have the money to implement President Bush’s “Vision for Space Exploration,” aimed at returning humans to the moon by 2020 and eventually sending them to Mars.
“A manned mission to Mars is of questionable scientific value and could cost up to $1 trillion,” CAGW President Tom Schatz said. “The immense technological challenges involved are expected to be overcome by an agency that currently lacks the ability to launch a shuttle beyond low-earth orbit.”
The Columbia Accident Investigation Board described in stinging detail the long-term and widespread failures of NASA's entire management that caused the Columbia and Challenger disasters and the problems that continue to plague the manned-spaceflight program. Institutional arrogance precludes managers from dealing honestly with internal problems or outside criticism. Management routinely “deferred to layered and cumbersome regulations rather than the fundamentals of safety.” Also, a recent report from the Government Accountability Office (GAO) faulted NASA for not adequately exploring alternatives to the space shuttle. NASA has been unable to complete an audit of the agency's budget for the past five years and its accounting is labeled “high risk” by the Bush Administration. A 2004 GAO report revealed that NASA had lost $34 million in government property since 1997 and has failed to keep track of items including a $300,000 robot.
The President’s initiative was left for dead in the summer of 2004 after a lukewarm reception from the public and deep skepticism from prominent scientists. But funding for the initiative was included at the last minute in the fiscal 2005 omnibus bill. For fiscal 2006, House appropriators have marked up NASA’s budget at $16.5 billion including $3.1 billion for the moon/Mars initiative which is $275 million above fiscal 2005 levels and $15 million above the President’s budget request.
Grandiose tales of bases on the moon and trips to Mars are reminiscent of the International Space Station (ISS), which was once envisaged as a beehive of research, a stopover service station for space travelers, and an assembly and manufacturing plant. The ISS is expected to be finished in 2010 16 years behind schedule, $92 billion over budget, with perhaps one-eighth of the capability that engineers had hoped. NASA expects to abandon the ISS after only seven years of full operation. The ISS is a glaring link in a continuous chain of space projects that are either abandoned, end in disaster, or deliver far less than promised. NASA’s unbroken string of six cancelled vehicle programs stretches back to the Reagan Administration, and the $125 million Mars orbiter was lost to improper conversion between metric and English units.
“Mankind’s future in space no longer depends on politicized bureaucracies and tax-funded boondoggles,” Schatz concluded. “The success of SpaceShipOne, startup space companies, and the advent of space tourism have opened the door to an exciting future of private enterprise in space. Such endeavors are economical, realistic, and more likely to yield tangible benefits for mankind and taxpayers.”
Citizens Against Government Waste is the nation's largest nonpartisan, nonprofit organization dedicated to eliminating waste, fraud, abuse, and mismanagement in government.
Space ping.
I wonder where he gets a trillion dollars.
How much it costs depends on how you go. You can't get any cost data without deciding how you want to go first.
For what it is worth, low earth orbit is closer to the moon in terms of launch energy than the earth's surface. It would make sense for much of any future space station to be made from the moon rock (the massy part that would be used to block radiation at least).
Helium 3 is available on the moon. That would provide an option for a fuel source. Moon rocks could be stacked around the crew module to block radiation. The Martian Atmosphere can be converted to chemical fuel- (methane-oxygen).
All those well known notions lower necessary payload, and make the cost drop.
If you don't do that, and go dumb, then you spend more money.
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On July 20, 1969 Eagle Scout NEIL ARMSTRONG became the 1st Man on the Moon.
Early in this new LIBERTY century I wonder what will be the name of the 1st Eagle Scout on Mars?
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I aay the hell with manned flights to Mars or otherwise. Those years of all the projected commercialized space mining in the belts etc., that where glamorized in the 60/70's did not pay off in the least. Put the monies back into the military relm where it makes sense for the next fifty years or whatever.
NASA is so diverse, spends moneies on so many things it should not be involved in, that are not directly space related to put next generation craft into space. Why not give the monies back to the Airforce. Let them use the monies more effectively.
I for one would rather monies go toward putting in effective space defenses that can truly negate whatever the Ruskkies and Chicoms may go in for. Let Hollywood make cute films and let our Airforce develop things to protect us from any inevitable enemy in local space.
If they go up there to look for germs and microbes it will be a waste of money. I can find germs in my toilet without spending billions of dollars
On the other hand if they go up to investigate the clear evidence of having found remains of cities and megaliths up there, I have to like the idea. Cities interst me; germs don't.
We have spent more than a trillion dollars on social welfare alone.. Yet a minor increase in NASA all hell breaks lose.
Yeah, but giving away trillions to lazy ass citizens is. And where did that 4 trillion over the last 40 years take us? Nervana? Hardly!
I vote for space exploration and anyone not happy about the fact they haven't hit the welfare lottery can get off their ass and earn a square meal like the rest of us do.
An artist's conception of Zheng He's flagship. These were wooden ships made of hardwood which were 150 meters in length and could carry 2000 tons of cargo. Noah would not have needed anything much bigger.
We now stand in front of an altogether similar door regarding space exploration. Walk away from it or allow China or Japan were to get to Cydonia before we do, and the Age of America will be over.
Clear evidence of having found... weathering rocks.
Crater? Or cosmic happy face? You decide...
There is no possible way that five-sided pyramid is a natural formation. You can draw all the pictures of Indiahhead Md. you want, that's irrelevant.
Cheng Ho's statue in Malacca.
But isn't his story a classic example of the folly of relying on the government as your main source of funding?
Moon, Mars Missions Not a Priority for Taxpayers
Look I been on these boards since 10am so I really am shot, but I owe you a response.
"Also you have a short sighted view about space. I wouldn't give cause of what happen in the past. If China and Russia controls the space, Moon and Mars, this nation is in deep doo doo"
Mars is to far out to make any difference unless space of the kind depicted in sci fi novels where to come to past a long long way off from now. Moon. I am with you a hundred percent. And in essence that is what my statement reflected. We can differ on what gains in scientific knowledge where attributed to the space programe etc..
But I hope no one here thinks for instance our semiconductor industries where as was so broadly advertised early on to be a critical contributor in semiconductor fabrication, ended up having any positive contribution. As we in that field know, we have made all our gains right here on earth. Yes I do admit all the satelites launced for both scientific and commerical and military uses have obviously been a blessing at the least. But I was talking about deep inner space, and further adventures into our solar systems primarily in my comments, as just not being a priority thing for us to be sinking monies into.
At any rate, my eyes are truly bleary at this point, so I bid you a pleasant morning. I'm hitting the sack.
Based on what? Your say so? The Weekly World News?
Here's a higher resolution pic: http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2003/09/15/DandM100.gif
You can draw all the pictures of Indiahhead Md. you want, that's irrelevant.
Actually, it's perfectly relevant to your anthropomorphizing rocks on Mars. Even more relevant to the discussion is this picture, also linked from the site you learned about Martian 'pyramids'
I dunno man. While i'm a firm believer in the importance of space exploration and the notion that "we are not alone"... there is plenty of weird natural features out there that we cannot explain...
http://www.novelexplorations.com/diary/ireland04p10.html
Based on what? Your say so? The Weekly World News?
The images are sufficiently obvious.
Making plans that are three terms down the road for the moon
Just who is President Bush returning 'favors' to? Are these explorers going to be carrying the Mexican flag to the moon?
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