Court rules that Holocaust survivors' lawsuit against the Vatican can proceed

Catholic News Agency ^ | Jun. 15, 2005

[Zionist Conspirator]

The Church is not pure as the wind-drifted snow.

Indeed.

There are plenty of looted treasures from massacred Jews, Huegenots, Cathars, Templars, heretics and accused witches that have found their way into the Vatican catacombs.

Not to mention that for the latter half of the 20th century the Catholic Church was the number one promoter and disseminator of defamations of the Torah (historical criticism, demythologization, evolutionism, rejection of "old testament" miracles, etc.) throughout the world (this may change slightly for the better under the current Pope, but I'm not holding my breath). Why these attacks on the Torah don't count as anti-Semitism (which is apparently limited to remarks about banks and noses) or even as "theological anti-Judaism" (which is apparently limited to chr*stian supercessionism) is beyond me. But then, liberals can scream about chr*stians who want to impose "old testament law" and atheists can host TV documentaries tearing the Holy Torah to shreds and not a word is said.

[Grzegorz 246]

Exactly.

[Antoninus]

Despite Procopius and Justinian, it is highly unlikely that the actual original menorah survived the Roman sack of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

I disagree. Behold this image from the Arch of Titus in Rome:



This could very well be a depiction from Titus's triumphal entry into Rome after the sack. Furthermore, Procopius was an eyewitness to the 6th century campaign in Carthage and Belisarius's subsequent triumph in Constantinople and would, I think, be unlikely to make up such a story.

I think this notion that the temple treasures are in the possession of the Vatican stems from a document penned by an anonymous cleric from 1073 which states that the Ark of the Covenant, the menorah, and other treasures are kept in the Lateran Basilica in Rome. Personally, I doubt it.

If I had to guess, I'd say that they were either destroyed by the Muslims during the 7th-10th century or else melted down during the crusader sack of Constantinople in 1204.

[Antoninus]

During the existence of Nazi Croatia, Vatican did nothing to prevent the Croatian state from publicly encouraging faithful RC flock to murder, pillage and loot Serb and Jewish property.

Ah, I see. So the sins of all Catholics are implicitly the fault of the Vatican for not preaching forcefully enough. Who do you think you are, John Cornwell or something?

[wideawake]

This could very well be a depiction from Titus's triumphal entry into Rome after the sack.

I would agree with you. But the Romans routinely melted down valuable items after they were displayed in triumph.

[a freedom-loving italian]

Considering what's happened to Italy since they decided to go the secular route you may soon have to change your name to "a freedom-loving resident of hesperiastan"

I hate to tell ya that you are completely OFF TARGET here.
You know what really happened to Italy since She's been a truly secular republic (like the good ole USA)? Italy has turned from a lousy third-world country to a G7 country.

Look, I am not against religion at all, but sure I am against THEOCRACY like Saudi Arabia or Iran or EVEN the Vatican. You're worried about Islamic invading my country?
Well I am worried too. But I am worried as long as these muslim folks want to create an islamic theocracy here. If those muslims decided to go secular, then I'd be OK with them.

[a freedom-loving italian]

I don't have proof, only my logic.

It is logic to think that the Vatican is happy when the Roman Catholicism is spreading and the rival Orthodox Church is hurting.

If you want proof read the posts of DTA, although I admit that I don't know much about that single episode of WWII

[DTA]

>>>>>>>Ah, I see. So the sins of all Catholics are implicitly the fault of the Vatican for not preaching forcefully enough. Who do you think you are, John Cornwell or something?<<<<<

No, this is not the issue we are discussing.

Unlike in Nazi Germany, The RC Church was not endangered in Croatia by Croatian Nazi regime and there was no reason for Vatican to tiptoe with Pavelic like with Hitler.

In Germany, thousands of RC clergy ended in concentration camps as victims. In Croatia, they were in Concentration camps only as executioners.

Vatican did nothing to stop the Ustasha crimes. Pope Pius XII even personally welcomed Nazi criminals in Vatican.

This is as tacit support as one can get.

[Diocletian]

Again you make the claim that clergy in Croatia were "executioners", yet you can't back this up.

[Antoninus]

I don't have proof, only my logic.

Not good enough. Please retract your statement.

[Antoninus]

You know what really happened to Italy since She's been a truly secular republic (like the good ole USA)? Italy has turned from a lousy third-world country to a G7 country.

Whoopty-doo. So you've traded your Catholic heritage for filthy lucre. Meanwhile, Italians can't be bothered to have children anymore and have embraced the worst aspects of secular hedonism. All the while being invaded by Islamics who have no interest in your secular society at all. I reference what's happening in Holland--that's going to be Italy 20-30 years down the road, pal.

[Antoninus]

Your posts are incoherent. Please provide PROOF that Catholic clergy were running concentration camps in Croatia. A photo of a bishop with some unidentified soldiers is not proof of that.

[ex-snook]

" Ah, I see. So the sins of all Catholics are implicitly the fault of the Vatican for not preaching forcefully enough."

It's not about preaching it's cherchez la buck.

[Diocletian]

He doesn't have any proof....but they have been at this propaganda for over 50 years...so they will resurrect it again once this thread dies down.

[GipperGal]

Thanks for your informative posts. I'm new to this topic and am interested in learning the facts. What's the story on this accusation from DTA:

And we have not touched the issue of forced conversion of Christians to RC faith. While Vatican was in no position to stop genocide, the all power to stop forced conversions was in Vatican's hands. The Archbishop who presided over forced conversions was elevated to Cardinal and beatified. Do I have to say anything more?

What's he talking about? Is this true?

Again, thanks for your posts!

[Diocletian]

No, it isn't true. Archbishop (and later Cardinal) Stepinac was never present at any "forced conversions".

[netmilsmom]

I am Catholic. I love my church, but one cannot be unrealistic about any of this.

1. If the Vatican was "holding" Gold, there is no reason that they should continue to.
2. It is none of the business of the US.
3. There is no reason to close our eyes to the mistakes made by the Vatican. JPII made it very clear that we are sorry and apologized for the wrongs. He led the way.

I have to do some reading on this whole situation. The little that I read, the Vatican's claim was that they were holding the assets for safekeeping. The owners are asking for it back. That is fair.

[Diocletian]

You're working from the premise that the gold is stolen.

[netmilsmom]

I see.
But on a Google search of the reports, I read that the Vatican says that they were holding it for safekeeping.

Could you direct me to where I can read more about all of this without a slant?
This is where I was at http://www.reformation.org/holocaus.html
And I'm not sure if it is acurate at all.

[Diocletian]

You went to the slantiest slant of all sites....lmao

The NDH government, like all governments, had gold. When that regime decided to pull up stakes, it took the treasury along with it so that it wouldn't fall into the hands of the communists.