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Terri Schiavo Autopsy: Manner of Death 'Undetermined'
CNSNews.com ^ | June 15, 2005 | Jeff Johnson

Posted on 06/15/2005 12:27:19 PM PDT by veronica

(1st Add: Includes comments from George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney.)

(CNSNews.com) - Terri Schiavo's body did not show any signs of trauma or other criminal activity that would explain her brain injury, nor was there evidence to support previous diagnoses of a heart attack or an eating disorder, the Florida medical examiner who conducted her autopsy said Wednesday. A representative of Terri's family complimented the report, but said it still leaves many questions unanswered.

"She died of dehydration," Dr. Jon Thogmartin, the Florida medical examiner for Pinellas and Pasco counties said, noting that the official cause of death would be listed as "complications of anoxic encephalopathy."

"That's the only diagnosis that I know for sure, is that her brain went without oxygen," he added. "Why? That is undetermined."

George Felos - attorney for Terri's husband, Michael Schiavo - said the report confirms what he has argued all along.

"The courts have found that there was no abuse of Terri, no evidence of abuse, and that's what the medical examiner found," Felos said.

Terri Schiavo collapsed under unknown circumstances in 1990. Michael Schiavo was awarded nearly $2 million in judgments and settlements in a medical malpractice lawsuit claiming that the collapse was caused by a heart attack triggered by a potassium imbalance, caused by an undiagnosed eating disorder, bulimia nervosa. Thogmartin challenged that determination.

"No one observed Mrs. Schiavo taking diet pills, binging and purging or consuming laxatives and she apparently never confessed to her family or friends about having an eating disorder," Thogmartin found. "Furthermore, many other signs of bulimia nervosa were not reported to be present."

Terri was "heavy" as a teenager, according to Thogmartin, and had lost more than 100 pounds after graduation. The eating disorder diagnosis was based on that fact and a low potassium level measured during a blood test about an hour after Terri was first hospitalized.

"Her low potassium level appears to be the main piece of evidence purporting to show that she had an eating disorder," Thogmartin said. But he noted that she received numerous medical treatments when she arrived at the hospital that would have lowered that measurement.

"Thus the main piece of evidence supporting the diagnosis of bulimia nervosa is suspect," he concluded.

"Once you eliminate the potassium problem, which is known in bulimics, you end up with a 26-year-old who used to be healthy, who now lost the weight, is reveling in her thinness now, enjoying her life and doesn't want to gain the weight back," Thogmartin said. "If that's a bulimic, there's a lot of bulimics out there. It's just not enough."

Thogmartin said that because he cannot, "with reasonable medical certainty," ascertain why or how the blood and oxygen to Terri's brain were interrupted, he cannot rule on what started the chain of events that led to her death.

"The manner of death is different from the cause of death. Manner of death is the circumstances of death or how the death came about," Thogmartin said. "Since I don't know the circumstances or can't tell, actually, what the underlying cause is, the manner of death has to be 'undetermined.'"

Other allegations and theories addressed

Thogmartin dismissed the theory that the oxygen depravation to Terri's brain might have been the result of a myocardial infarction, the medical term for a "heart attack," or death of heart muscle from coronary artery disease.

"Mrs. Schiavo's heart was anatomically normal without any areas of recent or remote infarction," he explained.

In response to the allegations that Terri's collapse was the result of a physical assault, Thogmartin noted that she received nearly 30 X-rays, CAT scans and ultrasound examinations during the medical examination that followed her collapse.

"Any fractures - including rib fractures, leg fractures, ankle fractures, skull fractures, spine fractures - that occurred concurrent with her initial collapse would almost certainly have been diagnosed in 1990, especially with the number of physical exams, radiographs and other evaluations she received during her initial hospitalization," Thogmartin said. "No fractures or trauma were reported or recorded."

There was also, Thogmartin said, "no evidence to support or the evidence did not support," various allegations that Terri was abused or neglected after her initial brain injury.

Was Terri in a Persistent Vegetative State?

Thogmartin brought in Dr. Stephen Nelson, an expert in pathology of the brain and central nervous system, as a consultant during the autopsy. Nelson stressed numerous times that the diagnosis of a "Persistent Vegetative State," which was used to justify the removal of the feeding tube that kept Terri alive, "is a clinical diagnosis, it's not a pathologic diagnosis that has precision associated with it." But he did not dispute the finding.

"There is nothing in her autopsy report, in her autopsy that is inconsistent with Persistent Vegetative State," Nelson said, adding that there was evidence to support the finding.

"A normal brain weight for somebody who is approximately 41 years of age ought to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,200 to 1,300 grams," Nelson explained. "Her brain is 615 grams and is largely reduced to what is termed granular atrophy ... associated with the loss of blood flow that happened many years prior.

"Those all are consistent with what is reported in the literature for Persistent Vegetative State," Nelson added. "We found nothing that is contrary to what has previously been reported for Persistent Vegetative State."

Nelson compared the physical condition of Terri's brain to that of Karen Ann Quinlan, the New Jersey woman who died in 1985 -- nine years after her parents won a court battle to remove her from a respirator.

"Her brain, Karen Ann Quinlan's, weighed more than Terri Schiavo's brain weighed," Nelson said. "The findings here are, perhaps, worse, even, than Karen Ann Quinlan."

Thogmartin also concluded that Terri's brain injury was irreversible.

"Her brain was profoundly atrophied," the medical examiner concluded. "This damage was irreversible and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons."

Michael Schiavo relied on the diagnosis of a Persistent Vegetative State when he sought permission from the Florida courts to remove Terri's feeding tube. He and two of his relatives testified that Terri had said she would not want to be kept alive in such a condition. Thogmartin discussed the contention by many right-to-life advocates that Terri's family should have been allowed to offer her food and water by mouth after that feeding tube was removed.

"She would not have been able to consume sustenance safely or in sufficient quantity by mouth," Thogmartin said. "Mrs. Schiavo was dependent, therefore, on nutrition and hydration by her feeding tube and removal of her feeding tube would have resulted in her death whether she was fed by mouth or not."

In layman's terms

After a technical explanation of his findings, laden with medical language, Thogmartin was asked to summarize his findings in an exchange with one unidentified reporter:

REPORTER: "In layman's terms, did Terri Schiavo starve to death?"

THOGMARTIN: "No."

REPORTER: "Did she suffer any neglect or abuse?"

THOGMARTIN: "No."

REPORTER: "Will we ever know what caused her death?"

THOGMARTIN: "I don't know."

Pamela Hennessy, spokeswoman for the Terri Schindler Schiavo Foundation and Terri's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, complimented Thogmartin on his report.

"However, it does seem that the conclusions of his report leave as many unanswered questions as there were previously," Hennessy said. "For instance, if Terri did not suffer bulimia and she had as healthy a heart as Dr. Thogmartin proclaimed, what caused her collapse?

"It doesn't really bring much in the way of closure to [the Schindlers] as far as what happened to their daughter, why this happened in the first place and what could have been done for her," Hennessy concluded.

Thogmartin said he is open to answering those questions.

"It is the policy of this office that no case is ever closed, and that all determinations are to be reconsidered upon receipt of credible new information," he explained.

"In addition to fading memories, the 15-year survival of Mrs. Schiavo after her collapse resulted in the creation of a voluminous number of documents, many of which were lost or discarded over those years," he continued. "Receipt of additional credible information that clarifies any outstanding issues may, or shall cause an amendment to her cause and manner of death."


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: autopsy; facts; schiavo; schiavoautopsy; terrischiavo
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To: Howlin

I'm not slandering him. I don't know anything about him personally - but then again - neither do you. You only know what's on the Net. I've given just now 4 examples of men, whom I have personally worked with, whose private demeanor and reputation was exceedingly different than anything you'd see about them on the Net. What you find on-line isn't necessarily all there is.

I guess what I take exception to here is excessive reverence towards degrees, honors, etc. because as someone who's worked in institutions like MIT, Harvard, etc, I've seen what the other side of some of these guys is. I don't put too much stock in the pretty CV.


361 posted on 06/15/2005 9:06:29 PM PDT by blueblazes
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To: Pepper777

I'm glad to hear that. Mr. Bush is a good man with solid values, I've never doubted that.


362 posted on 06/15/2005 9:07:32 PM PDT by blueblazes
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To: Howlin

Howlin, doesn't matter what you find.......we are to assume the worst unless every person that has come into contact with him in his adult life signs an affidavit that he should be in line for Sainthood.

Until that day, we MUST assume the guy is dirt.


The flavor today is: grape. Drink up.


363 posted on 06/15/2005 9:07:42 PM PDT by bonfire (dwindler)
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To: fooman
Remember the lost Xrays of foster? Until we see the xrays of her entire body on the internet, I say the fix is in.

You are right on that!!!

364 posted on 06/15/2005 9:08:58 PM PDT by pollywog (Psalm 121;1 I Lift my eyes to the hills from whence cometh my help.)
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To: bonfire

Nooooo.. that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is not to put too much stock in honors, degrees, education - stuff like that, because they don't tell the full story about someone, especially when it's in regard to character. That kind of stuff you don't find on line. We should have a jaundiced eye out for all our authority figures. I've seen enough of them to know that.


365 posted on 06/15/2005 9:10:03 PM PDT by blueblazes
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To: sinkspur

No lie, records were sealed, settled out of court, it's in #334. Google and Yahoo are not the Know All, Have All about everything. Do you really think Pinellas and Pasco County would permit this becoming matter of public record given their history of corrupt ME's. He is not a beloved figure within the Medical community in Central Florida.


366 posted on 06/15/2005 9:10:10 PM PDT by eagle mama (If you are of the opinion that things don't add up, it doesn't mean you are a conspiracy theorist.)
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To: blueblazes

Right. SOmetimes there isn't. So the moral of your story is???

bb, No one is perfect and everyone has people that don't care for them. What does that have to do with this Doctor? If you have proof of something, why don't you post it.


367 posted on 06/15/2005 9:10:38 PM PDT by bonfire (dwindler)
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To: blueblazes
We should have a jaundiced eye out for all our authority figures.

...Unless they are on our side....

Right?

368 posted on 06/15/2005 9:11:06 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: blueblazes
You only know what's on the Net.

Are you series? Can you possibly be THAT dense?

If it's out there, it's ON the internet.

369 posted on 06/15/2005 9:12:00 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: blueblazes

LOL - there is NO evidence, therefore we MUST investigate !


370 posted on 06/15/2005 9:12:01 PM PDT by RS (Just because they are out to get him, it doesn't mean he's not guilty.)
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To: bonfire
The flavor today is: grape. Drink up.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

371 posted on 06/15/2005 9:12:26 PM PDT by .38sw
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To: HairOfTheDog

No - not at all. I have a jaundiced eye for ALL OF THEM until I know otherwise. I'm just not impressed with the CVs you can find on the Net - they don't tell the whole story. As I've said above, I've worked for several honest to God bastards and basket cases who had sterling CVs. It's best to be cynical about all authority.


372 posted on 06/15/2005 9:12:48 PM PDT by blueblazes
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To: eagle mama
There is no such thing as lawsuits against county public figures which are not a matter of public record. Every newspaper in south Florida would be all over a story about a crooked ME.

Again, I am saying that you are simply not believeable in your accusations, since you refuse to provide one shred of evidence.

373 posted on 06/15/2005 9:12:54 PM PDT by sinkspur (If you want unconditional love with skin, and hair and a warm nose, get a shelter dog.)
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To: bonfire
we are to assume the worst unless every person that has come into contact with him in his adult life signs an affidavit that he should be in line for Sainthood.

Like the Michael Jackson jury? It's not just "beyond a reasonable doubt," it's "beyond ANY doubt, and only if I say so!"

374 posted on 06/15/2005 9:13:04 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: MHGinTN

twist the facts however you want.


375 posted on 06/15/2005 9:13:13 PM PDT by Hildy ( The reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of his tongue)
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To: eagle mama

Are YOU serious?

I don't give a damn if the settlement WAS sealed; the records are PUBLIC RECORD.

Frankly, I don't believe one word you say. I think you're a poser.


376 posted on 06/15/2005 9:14:14 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: HairOfTheDog

Bingo.


377 posted on 06/15/2005 9:14:44 PM PDT by bonfire (dwindler)
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To: ClancyJ
the new face of medicaid

"Seniors and the disabled are pushing the program to the breaking point"

378 posted on 06/15/2005 9:14:59 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: sinkspur; RedBloodedAmerican; EllaMinnow
There is no such thing as lawsuits against county public figures which are not a matter of public record.

Absolutely NONE!

379 posted on 06/15/2005 9:15:03 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: Howlin

No, that's not true. How are you going to find out that Dr. Blah Blah grabs the interns breasts in the elevator - that's on the Net? I don't think so. This stuff doesn't generally get on the Net, not in any official capacity - if it shows up at all it's on gossipy blog sites, or sites like this. I would be very surprised if names were mentioned at all. I hope you're not naive enough to think that a man's publicized CV is actually a totally accurate portrayal of all aspects of his character, work and personality?


380 posted on 06/15/2005 9:15:03 PM PDT by blueblazes
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