Posted on 06/15/2005 12:27:19 PM PDT by veronica
(1st Add: Includes comments from George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney.)
(CNSNews.com) - Terri Schiavo's body did not show any signs of trauma or other criminal activity that would explain her brain injury, nor was there evidence to support previous diagnoses of a heart attack or an eating disorder, the Florida medical examiner who conducted her autopsy said Wednesday. A representative of Terri's family complimented the report, but said it still leaves many questions unanswered.
"She died of dehydration," Dr. Jon Thogmartin, the Florida medical examiner for Pinellas and Pasco counties said, noting that the official cause of death would be listed as "complications of anoxic encephalopathy."
"That's the only diagnosis that I know for sure, is that her brain went without oxygen," he added. "Why? That is undetermined."
George Felos - attorney for Terri's husband, Michael Schiavo - said the report confirms what he has argued all along.
"The courts have found that there was no abuse of Terri, no evidence of abuse, and that's what the medical examiner found," Felos said.
Terri Schiavo collapsed under unknown circumstances in 1990. Michael Schiavo was awarded nearly $2 million in judgments and settlements in a medical malpractice lawsuit claiming that the collapse was caused by a heart attack triggered by a potassium imbalance, caused by an undiagnosed eating disorder, bulimia nervosa. Thogmartin challenged that determination.
"No one observed Mrs. Schiavo taking diet pills, binging and purging or consuming laxatives and she apparently never confessed to her family or friends about having an eating disorder," Thogmartin found. "Furthermore, many other signs of bulimia nervosa were not reported to be present."
Terri was "heavy" as a teenager, according to Thogmartin, and had lost more than 100 pounds after graduation. The eating disorder diagnosis was based on that fact and a low potassium level measured during a blood test about an hour after Terri was first hospitalized.
"Her low potassium level appears to be the main piece of evidence purporting to show that she had an eating disorder," Thogmartin said. But he noted that she received numerous medical treatments when she arrived at the hospital that would have lowered that measurement.
"Thus the main piece of evidence supporting the diagnosis of bulimia nervosa is suspect," he concluded.
"Once you eliminate the potassium problem, which is known in bulimics, you end up with a 26-year-old who used to be healthy, who now lost the weight, is reveling in her thinness now, enjoying her life and doesn't want to gain the weight back," Thogmartin said. "If that's a bulimic, there's a lot of bulimics out there. It's just not enough."
Thogmartin said that because he cannot, "with reasonable medical certainty," ascertain why or how the blood and oxygen to Terri's brain were interrupted, he cannot rule on what started the chain of events that led to her death.
"The manner of death is different from the cause of death. Manner of death is the circumstances of death or how the death came about," Thogmartin said. "Since I don't know the circumstances or can't tell, actually, what the underlying cause is, the manner of death has to be 'undetermined.'"
Other allegations and theories addressed
Thogmartin dismissed the theory that the oxygen depravation to Terri's brain might have been the result of a myocardial infarction, the medical term for a "heart attack," or death of heart muscle from coronary artery disease.
"Mrs. Schiavo's heart was anatomically normal without any areas of recent or remote infarction," he explained.
In response to the allegations that Terri's collapse was the result of a physical assault, Thogmartin noted that she received nearly 30 X-rays, CAT scans and ultrasound examinations during the medical examination that followed her collapse.
"Any fractures - including rib fractures, leg fractures, ankle fractures, skull fractures, spine fractures - that occurred concurrent with her initial collapse would almost certainly have been diagnosed in 1990, especially with the number of physical exams, radiographs and other evaluations she received during her initial hospitalization," Thogmartin said. "No fractures or trauma were reported or recorded."
There was also, Thogmartin said, "no evidence to support or the evidence did not support," various allegations that Terri was abused or neglected after her initial brain injury.
Was Terri in a Persistent Vegetative State?
Thogmartin brought in Dr. Stephen Nelson, an expert in pathology of the brain and central nervous system, as a consultant during the autopsy. Nelson stressed numerous times that the diagnosis of a "Persistent Vegetative State," which was used to justify the removal of the feeding tube that kept Terri alive, "is a clinical diagnosis, it's not a pathologic diagnosis that has precision associated with it." But he did not dispute the finding.
"There is nothing in her autopsy report, in her autopsy that is inconsistent with Persistent Vegetative State," Nelson said, adding that there was evidence to support the finding.
"A normal brain weight for somebody who is approximately 41 years of age ought to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,200 to 1,300 grams," Nelson explained. "Her brain is 615 grams and is largely reduced to what is termed granular atrophy ... associated with the loss of blood flow that happened many years prior.
"Those all are consistent with what is reported in the literature for Persistent Vegetative State," Nelson added. "We found nothing that is contrary to what has previously been reported for Persistent Vegetative State."
Nelson compared the physical condition of Terri's brain to that of Karen Ann Quinlan, the New Jersey woman who died in 1985 -- nine years after her parents won a court battle to remove her from a respirator.
"Her brain, Karen Ann Quinlan's, weighed more than Terri Schiavo's brain weighed," Nelson said. "The findings here are, perhaps, worse, even, than Karen Ann Quinlan."
Thogmartin also concluded that Terri's brain injury was irreversible.
"Her brain was profoundly atrophied," the medical examiner concluded. "This damage was irreversible and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons."
Michael Schiavo relied on the diagnosis of a Persistent Vegetative State when he sought permission from the Florida courts to remove Terri's feeding tube. He and two of his relatives testified that Terri had said she would not want to be kept alive in such a condition. Thogmartin discussed the contention by many right-to-life advocates that Terri's family should have been allowed to offer her food and water by mouth after that feeding tube was removed.
"She would not have been able to consume sustenance safely or in sufficient quantity by mouth," Thogmartin said. "Mrs. Schiavo was dependent, therefore, on nutrition and hydration by her feeding tube and removal of her feeding tube would have resulted in her death whether she was fed by mouth or not."
In layman's terms
After a technical explanation of his findings, laden with medical language, Thogmartin was asked to summarize his findings in an exchange with one unidentified reporter:
REPORTER: "In layman's terms, did Terri Schiavo starve to death?"
THOGMARTIN: "No."
REPORTER: "Did she suffer any neglect or abuse?"
THOGMARTIN: "No."
REPORTER: "Will we ever know what caused her death?"
THOGMARTIN: "I don't know."
Pamela Hennessy, spokeswoman for the Terri Schindler Schiavo Foundation and Terri's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, complimented Thogmartin on his report.
"However, it does seem that the conclusions of his report leave as many unanswered questions as there were previously," Hennessy said. "For instance, if Terri did not suffer bulimia and she had as healthy a heart as Dr. Thogmartin proclaimed, what caused her collapse?
"It doesn't really bring much in the way of closure to [the Schindlers] as far as what happened to their daughter, why this happened in the first place and what could have been done for her," Hennessy concluded.
Thogmartin said he is open to answering those questions.
"It is the policy of this office that no case is ever closed, and that all determinations are to be reconsidered upon receipt of credible new information," he explained.
"In addition to fading memories, the 15-year survival of Mrs. Schiavo after her collapse resulted in the creation of a voluminous number of documents, many of which were lost or discarded over those years," he continued. "Receipt of additional credible information that clarifies any outstanding issues may, or shall cause an amendment to her cause and manner of death."
According to the M.E. report today, she could not swallow. And you must admit, she was not given the chance to swallow food or water. If I am wrong, please show me where Judge Greer allowed her to do so.
Well said, though I disagree with you about there being no harm in letting the Schindlers get custody...that sets a bad precedent of disregarding a person's wishes "because she never would have known," and stomps all over the fact that Mrs. Schiavo was married to Mr. Schiavo and I don't want the government intervening in marriages. If Mr. Schiavo were convicted of some wrongdoing, perhaps, but not with innuendo and malicious guesses.
The other judges didn't want to risk offending George (Greer), they even said so in a local interview here in Florida. Offending a judge should not enter into the equation, this was about justice not about offending your good friend George. A little known fact, except locally, all of these judges are very close friends.
Could you please post some independent verification of this? There is absolutely nothing that comes up on google that would reflect negatively on Thogmartin.
If he has been sued, there should be media accounts. I can't seem to find them.
I think you read my last post. I'll state my position once again in case it was unclear to anyone. The ME doesn't matter. His report doesn't matter. The size, shape, or condition of her brain, doesn't matter. This is a moral issue. It is MORALLY WRONG - then, now and 500 years from now - to dehydrate and starve to death a woman, regardless of what her physical or mental state appears to be outwardly, because her estranged husband with a common law wife and children, wants it. That is morally WRONG. PERIOD. There are plenty of "facts" or "evidence" that people can discuss till hell freezes over and it's all irrelevant because it boils down to that one simple statement of morality. I'm not going to continue to argue these factoids with you folks. You can go read Empire Journal.com for a ton of information that they have put together. There are other sites as well but that is one of the best and comprehensive. YOu can do your own research if you care to. But I am still going to shout from the rooftops that it was MORALLY WRONG to dehydrate and starve Terri Schiavo. And that's the end of the discussion for me.
Please post the interview, or a link to it.
Yes and he convinced one young woman that her father died of natural causes only to later be determined that her father was actually murdered by being shot behind the ear. He settled out of court, and this is not the only case where his work was sloppy.
That sounds like a long time ago. How did she swallow her saliva?
Links? There is nothing that comes up in goggle that would verify what you're saying.
Or maybe he thought it was compassion. After years of rehabilitation and finally accepting that she would never get better, he knew she wouldn't have wanted to live that way and it was the last thing he could do for her. Now, I'm not saying you have to agree with that, or even understand it, but it's just as valid of an explanation as "just plain meanness."
Plus, this article has untruths in it. Michael was NOT awarded 2million dollars. He was awarded $700,000. The rest was in a trust for Terri. He used that to fulfill her wishes (I'm just stating what he has said.) He said whatever was left would go to charity. So to say HE was awarded 2 million dollars is just a lie. He couldn't use that money for personal reasons even if he wanted to.
POST HOC!
It is morally wrong to deny OR DELAY a woman the right to die. Let's turn the clock back to before the obstructionism.
But you're right...it was morally wrong to make dehydration the only way for Mrs. Schiavo to be at peace.
Many people have expressed feelings similar to that explanation.
But, you have no problem with the government stomping all over the rights of parents wishing to keep a daughter that the government wants to kill.
You have no problem with the state killing a non-dying woman. Veeerrrrrry interesting..........
Frankly, I have a real problem with the state killing a non-dying person period. I have a problem with the state redefining the laws of end-of-life situations at their whim. Seems I would get to say when man can kill me you would think.
I have a problem with you telling me I am crazy because I do not wish the government someday telling me a daughter has to die because her husband said so.
I think it had to do with her neck angle. IANAP, but you can do some searching and find it, I'm sure. Even Hammesfahr admitted it.
Where are her the ashes Hildy?
That's exactly what he has said, the few times he has spoken.
They're with Michael. He hasn't decided where he is going to bury them yet. He says that when he does, he will tell the Parents as he is court ordered to do.
Hopefully hidden away from her wacky parents...after the nasty accusations against her husband, I would guess he's being very careful.
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