Fahrenheit 2777: 9/11 has generated the mother of all conspiracy theories

Scientific American ^ | June 05, 2005 | Michael Shermer

[Radioactive]

Well then ask the structural engineer why is it that an airplane can vaporize because of the intense heat and yet we have uniforms and human remains present.

I have to laugh that you do not even think of the impossibilities that have been brought up by you.

This supposed structural engineer said he held the tail section in his hand....Oh yeah?...well why do you believe anything this un-named structural engineer had to say about anything?

Why do you believe anything anyone in government says on this when the government allowed this plane to be off course for over 45 minutes and nothing was done about it.

And why BTW, did Condoleesa Rice lie to us when she said...."We never ever thought that anyone would use airplanes as missiles to attack us."

And yet the Federal governent was having ...get this......on the very day of 9/11/01....an emergency drill that had hijackers using hijacked aircraft flying into building in NYC and DC.

And that is the lame excuse we were given by the federal government on why they did not react to the hijackings in time.

And you believe this?

[Swordmaker]

Yes who was directed by the federals to persue Limbaugh using the Patriot act.

What "federals" are those, Radioactive? The Republicans who are determined to bring down the most powerful bullhorn for the Republican cause? How about the Bush administration whose members have called in to Rush's show numerous times and appreciate the help he gave them in their re-election campaign? Why would either group seek to destroy Bush?

Who would gain by bringing Rush down?

Could it possibly be DemocRats??? It was, after all a DemocRat District Attorney who sought the subpoena.

By the way, exactly what part of the Patriot Act was used to subpoena Rush's medical records?

[dirtbiker]

Yes who was directed by the federals to persue Limbaugh using the Patriot act.

That would be the same attorney general, who is still fishing for an indictment..no federal involvement, sir.

[houeto]

Just show us the tapes of the plane, and end this goofy discussion.

How about the explanation of the collapse of building 7? Just an honest question.

[Swordmaker]

I knew you would ignore the facts!

Well then ask the structural engineer why is it that an airplane can vaporize because of the intense heat and yet we have uniforms and human remains present.

Exactly what part of "It did not 'vaporize'." do you fail to understand?

And yet the Federal governent was having ...get this......on the very day of 9/11/01....an emergency drill that had hijackers using hijacked aircraft flying into building in NYC and DC.

Please provide your proof that such an exercise was occurring... Frankly, I doubt you can provide any at all.

[Radioactive]

By the way, numb-nuts, the windows of the Pentagon are blast proof, they did what they were designed to do.

The wings would not shear off...the wings are the most structurally sound attachment to the fuselage next to the tail section. If that was the case, then the wings of the two planes that hit the twin towers would have fluttered to the ground never to enter into the buildings.

The wings would have damaged the exterior of the pentagon. The leading edge of a wing is extremely tough.....usually made of titanium and aluminum alloy that can withstand strikes of birds, hail and other debris.

The wings could not and would not be dragged through the small hole made by the impact of whatever it was that hit the pentagon. And blast proof windows are not made to accept a direct hit by a wing from a jetliner.

Nice try.

[dirtbiker]

Well then ask the structural engineer why is it that an airplane can vaporize because of the intense heat and yet we have uniforms and human remains present.

Force of impact can also "vaporize" a plane, aluminum isn't that tough.

I have to laugh that you do not even think of the impossibilities that have been brought up by you.

You humor me with your complete abandonment of logic.

This supposed structural engineer said he held the tail section in his hand....Oh yeah?...well why do you believe anything this un-named structural engineer had to say about anything?

I did name him, go back and read the post, if you can read, that is.

And yet the Federal governent was having ...get this......on the very day of 9/11/01....an emergency drill that had hijackers using hijacked aircraft flying into building in NYC and DC. And that is the lame excuse we were given by the federal government on why they did not react to the hijackings in time. And you believe this?

Really! Is this something the government told you, or did you believe what you heard on some MSM outlet?

[dirtbiker]

And blast proof windows are not made to accept a direct hit by a wing from a jetliner

I guess that's why there is a hole where the jetliner itself hit. You are farting against the wind, these stories have been debunked, and not by your friends, the government.

[Radioactive]

Nope...according to the government, the supposed 757 hit at over 500 MPH...at just above ground level at near 2 to 3 feet above the ground due to the hole in the pentagon which started at 2 feet above the ground thus destroying the aircraft almost instantaneously by the massive almost sun like fire that erupted that vaporized the aircraft and everything it was made of except the people and their clothing and uniforms.

Geesh..and you people believe this?

[dirtbiker]

Geesh..and you people believe this?

I was just thinking the same thing about you....BTW, a 757 won't do over 500, unless it was in a steep dive...just because it hit 2 feet above the ground doesn't mean it was flying 2 feet above it...

[Radioactive]

From "Popluar Mechanics", March 2005 Issue,

The popular Mechanics story was full of innacuracies and errors and was put out by the cousin of Michael Chertoff, the head of the National Homeland security Department.

I don't think this story has much value except to make you think that nothing was wrong with what happend.

one wing hit the ground

Look at the photos of the pentagon after the strike.There is no damage to the grass just in front of the pentagon or anywhere near it.

How in the heck do you explain that?

Even a dirt biker knows that his tires tear up the terf...and a wing from a 757 would have made a huge scarf into the lawn several feet down.

NOthing in the photos show that is the case.

[Radioactive]

We were told the the federal government that the plane had vaporized and that the wings could not be found.And yet we were able to find human remains and clothing in an area that was so hot that it vaporized the aircraft.

Imagine that!

[Rodney King]

So are you going to respond to post 176?

Also, let me see if I can get your logic right: The federal government has lied before, therefore they are lying now. Is that it?

[Swordmaker]

The wings would not shear off...the wings are the most structurally sound attachment to the fuselage next to the tail section. If that was the case, then the wings of the two planes that hit the twin towers would have fluttered to the ground never to enter into the buildings.

Thus spake Radioactive... sans any documentation, still ignoring the FACT that pieces of the wings WERE FOUND, where he says (again without evidence aside from the unsubstantiated say-so of conspiracists) no wings were found.

The wings would have damaged the exterior of the pentagon. The leading edge of a wing is extremely tough.....usually made of titanium and aluminum alloy that can withstand strikes of birds, hail and other debris.

And so they did damage the exterior of the Pentagon. Uh, Radio, (you don't mind me calling you Radio, do you Radio?) tell us all how "birds, hail and other debris" equate with six foot thick, steel re-inforced concrete walls recently re-inforced to withstand a near nuclear blast??? Let's see... two pound duck... 500 million ton building... right. Sure.

And blast proof windows are not made to accept a direct hit by a wing from a jetliner.

And the windows and walls that did receive the direct impact didn't. Take a look at this picture taken of the pentagon of the impact point (the large hole where the most fire can be seen is where the fuselage impacted the building). Note that this picture was taken after the fire-retardant foam had evaporated... most conspiracy sites use pictures where the foam is still piled up above the first story level and do not show the first floor wing impact damage:

The object behind the police car at the far right is a large construction generator that was smashed by impacting the right wing engine and moved about a dozen feet closer to the building. The opening in the building including the missing walls between pillars (along with their blast proof windows) is approximately 80 feet. Note also the direction the two pillars closest to the hole made by the fuselage are deformed TOWARD the hole. Incidentally, those large reels of cable were originally stored in the fenced area with the generator and were apparently dragged by the plane to the building.

Here is a closer view of the damage to the fence... note the fence is entirely gone behind the bent over fence posts in the front. Here is another view of the generator damage:

Now, let's talk about the damage to the Freeway, 300 yards away. Here is a picture taken by a motorist who barely escaped being hit by one of the knocked over light stanchions. Note the Lincoln Taxi behind the white car.

Or how about this Taxi Cab that WAS hit by a light pole?

Or this one from a different view?

The light poles that were knocked over or sheared off demonstrate a pathway of destruction approximately 125 feet wide... the wing span of the 757 is 124' 9". Do you know of a missile with such a wingspan? How about a fighter jet? I thought not in both cases.

[Psycho_Bunny]

Conspiricists argue that the buildings should have fallen over on their sides

Even by Whacked-Out Conspiricist Standards, this claim makes no sense.

[Swordmaker]

... by the massive almost sun like fire that erupted that vaporized the aircraft...

I notice you don't bother to address my fact filled posts... Now you have gone from " exceeding the temperature of the sun " to "almost sun like fire" and still claim "vaporization"... which it didn't.

The plane was shredded like an egg hitting a chainlink fence. Almost all of the aircraft was recovered... most of it in itty, bitty pieces.

[Radioactive]

I notice you don't bother to address my fact filled posts...

Facts according to whom?

I'm very busy and I cannot be on top of just your postings. I'm on other sites and have spent too much time on this topic, even though it is an interesting topic.

The plane was shredded like an egg hitting a chainlink fence. Almost all of the aircraft was recovered... most of it in itty, bitty pieces.

Not according to government sources. Official government story is that the missing engine was vaporized by fire.

And if it was shredded as you say...why then did it penetrate so deeply into the pentagon? Little iddy biddy pieces.........don't make holes like in the photographs.

[Swordmaker]

Facts according to whom?

YOU claimed certain things as fact... among which were that there was no damage on the freeway that would occur if an airliner had flown so low. I provided photographic evidence of the damage the airliner made on the freeway. YOU claimed no damage to the buildings caused by the wings... I provided photographic evidence of the damage caused by the wings striking the first floor ... knocking out the walls and windows in a wide expanse almost equal to the wingspan of a Boeing 757. YOU claimed no parts of a 757 were found in the Pentagon... I provided photographic evidence of Boeing 757 parts both in and out of the Pentagon including landing wheel hubs (identical matches), engine parts, aluminun skin, etc. YOU claimed extraordinary temperatures (exceeding those found on the sun) and I provided you with the facts, easily found in authoritative sources... proving your facts to be false.

Despite this plethora of evidence you, sir, stand mute, choosing to ignore what you cannot refute:

I'm very busy and I cannot be on top of just your postings. I'm on other sites and have spent too much time on this topic, even though it is an interesting topic.

You are not only an idiot, but you are a coward as well. You have decided to run and hide. OK. Bye.

"Not according to government sources. Official government story is that the missing engine was vaporized by fire."

In fairness to you, I did find one quotation referencing this.

Semi-official sources have speculated that perhaps fire consumed the aircraft, in some cases vaporizing the aluminum and then sometime later modified to simply melting the aluminum -- yet this seems highly unlikely, according to an analysis by Kee Dewdney and Gerry Longspaugh.

What is a "semi-official" source??? Are these sources only "official" on off Tuesdays? Is it something like being slightly pregnant??? The mind boggles at the possibilities!

I have NOT, however, found any "official" source making such a claim... and it certainly is not a possibility that the engines, made of high-temperature resistant steel alloys, would have "vaporized." It is, however, unnecessary to find such a statement because there is "no missing engine."

Since parts of both engines were found, your statement is clearly a lie. Whether you originated it, or you believe someone else who has originated it, does not negate the fact that there is no "vaporized" missing engine.

Conspiracists claim the ~3 foot diameter engine rotor part is too small to have come from the engines used on the American Airlines' 757. They point to the fact the engines are 9 feet in diameter and this part is too small. They quote engineers from Pratt and Whitney and General Electric as "not recognizing" that part as being part of their engines. But those conspiracy sites don't tell the whole story of why the engineers don't recognize it! It's not from either one of their engines!

The engines installed on this aircraft are Rolls Royce RB211-535E4B, a low/high pressure system turbofans (See cut-away drawing below). The low pressure part features a visible 8-9 foot diameter fan, but the high pressure portion features two ~3 foot diameter turbine rotors - a high pressure compressor fan and a high pressure turbine fan:

The rotor seen in the Pentagon pictures:

is the remains of the High Pressure Compressor Fan from one of the engines.

One engine was removed by a crane (numerous eyewitness reports of by-standers watching the demolishing of the remains of the building, as well as the official reports) almost intact (the fans still attached to their shafts). Since that engine was removed intact, and we have a photograph in situ of the compressor fan from the other engine, we have evidence of TWO (2) engines found in the Pentagon... and those engines were Rolls Royce RB211-535E4B Turbofans from a Boeing 757.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

Little iddy biddy pieces.........don't make holes like in the photographs.

A tornado (up to 300mph) can drive a piece of straw through a telephone pole. Buckshot does a whole lot of damage. A mass of itty-bitty pieces weighing tons at 500mph will go through a building.

[L.N. Smithee]

Thers plenty of proof of a New World Order. Some folks just refuse to look at the facts.

Since joining FR, I and other Freepers have many times challenged those alleging the existence of it to put up or shut up. When they would answer, they would provide quotes of people from years ago warning of the military industrial complex and monopolies and tyranny and such, but they would never be able to show a clear connection the way that we could prove, for example, that Vermont politician Bernard Sanders is a socialist.

Mostly what response I've gotten is like Tinfoil Darwinism. Like bones unearthed in an archeological dig, they lay out money men here, some Freemason symbols there, secret society members strategically placed around international meeting sites, and by arranging them all in a particular way, they can create a sketch of an creature they insist is what the NWO looks like, and then call the rest of us stupid for not believing them.

Even if it is true, and the Trilateralists and the Bilderbergers and the Bohemian Grovers and the Skull & Bonesmen and crack dealer Queen Elizabeth have the world on a string in the manner that some insist, exactly what in Nell is it that any of us can do about it?