I remain hopeful...but I guess only time will tell!
Posted on 06/04/2005 12:04:01 PM PDT by Tumbleweed_Connection
No country lasts forever. That’s an inarguable fact.
History reveals three primary reasons why countries fall, governments change and ways of life vanish.
The Taliban, Saddam, Nazis and many other governments fell because of war with other nations.
Revolutions brought on by internal strife, an insurgency, social unrest and disillusionment, reduced respect and admiration of the nation’s military (note that the Marines and Army are finding it very difficult and sometimes impossible to meet their recruiting goals), loss or reduction of social values and norms, and political extremism bring down some governments. Examples include Iran in 1979, France in the late 18 th Century, China in the late 1940s, and Mexico and Russia in the early 20 th Century.
Sometimes governments just quit for a variety of reasons, resulting in ethnic fragmentation, like in the case of the Soviet Union.
Perhaps you noted that America is currently suffering from two of the three aforementioned reasons why countries fall.
Right now, America is fighting a type of war–global asymmetric warfare–that has never been fought before by any nation. Our enemies wear no uniforms, abide by no rules, attack civilian targets, are in 90 countries including our own and want every American dead and the country destroyed.
We are suffering from political extremism mostly on the left; a clear reduction of social values and norms; widespread disillusionment when it comes to the war, social issues, politics, and the economy; and even some strife (a huge homeless population, high bankruptcy rate, a massive illegal alien population consisting of between 16 and 20 million people, etc.).
What makes many Americans think America is invulnerable to collapse or destruction? Such a belief is spectacularly arrogant.
History applies to all countries. According to history, we are far more at risk than what most Americans believe.
Extremists in the media (the Denver Post’s Reggie Rivers, the Rocky Mountain News’ Jason Salzman, the New York Times’ Tom Friedman, Paul Krugman and Maureen Dowd; Bill Moyers, Air America’s Al Franken, Michael Moore, Barbra Streisand, Tim Robbins, Sean Penn, Susan Sarandon, Ed Asner, et al), politics (Howard Dean, Sen. Dianne Feinstein, Rep. Barbara Boxer, Sen. Ted Kennedy, Sen. John Kerry, Sen. Robert Byrd, et al), and our collective societal commode (Ward Churchill, Louis Farrakhan, et al) are trying to dramatically change America as we know it. From their influential (upon many Americans suffering from muddy thinking) positions, such radicals fuel the flames of hate and discontent among those who are repulsed by the very idea of the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Fury, frustration and disbelief replace reason and respect when these types are forced to accept major political losses and when they realize most Americans disagree with their fanatical agendas. Their shrill fanaticism acts as an accelerant in creating an emotional inferno among the followers of such would-be tyrants, which increases the chances America falling while advancing the time line for our demise.
Nevertheless, many if not most Americans, in their complacency and ignorance of history, believe we have no reason to worry; that America will always exist regardless of history and the threats currently facing our nation.
How very, very wrong they are.
The liberals use this and will completely destroy this country, that is their goal.
Not too long ago I would have disagreed with you. However, within the past six months I have had an interesting experience that caused me to face a possible reality. Namely, an acquaintance (aged 39) who is educated and has a high-paying mid-executive and highly respectable job, said emphatically that as far as he was concerned our entire country should be completely socialist and that any and all words pertaining to God or religion should be forbidden because he saw this as 'forcing religion on him' and he doesn't belive in God. He went on to say that he thought taxes should be as high as necessary to pay for the socialism he advocates and that everyone should have all the medical care they need completely free of charge. He saw no conflict between his advocacy of socialism and his current life-style and his current economic standard of living. This is someone with a degree in accounting! I was stunned.
"dogma about the divine origin of man." is necessary for democracy. -- Could be, -- but I don't see that as needed in our Republic.
If you are talking about dogma in the sense of a (specific) religious doctrine, I agree.
Even in general, such a dogma is not needed imo.
I would indicate that the DOI, as our establishing document is predicated on a non-specific but absolute belief in an eternal creator to which all nature, humans and human institutions are subordinate.
Believe that if you like, but it simply does not say that. - The DOI makes perfect sense if all such references are ignored.
If rights are inalienable, they must also be eternal and immutable. The creator that bestows them must then, be likewise. It's inescapable.
As I said, if that makes sense to you, it's fine with me. But your conclusion is not inescapable, its arguable.
Take away "Creator," from the DOI and the remainder of the premise on which this nation was founded crumbles.
Hardly. That's a hyped up opinion to me, and to millions of others who do not believe as do you.
Why don't you come see me.
Exactly - we can take care of outside threats, our worst enemy is..... us. Can the sane, optimistic part of us defeat our self hating, suicidal alterego?
Where then, do inalienable rights come from? Who endows or grants them? What makes them inalienable? (i.e., why does the same premise apply to every human, whether or not he lives in a system that respects it?)
"That's a hyped up opinion to me, and to millions of others who do not believe as do you."
Millions of others agree with you and are free to do so. That is; however, the entire crux of my initial argument, which is when we lose site of moral absolutes, and the source from which they flow, we are undermining this nation's ideals. The problem is precisely THAT millions of people agree with you. You are free to do so, and our founders would agree that no government should pass a law which would punish or adversely affect you because of your beliefs. My two issues are that in this day and age, the atheist is using the force of law to impose their beliefs and that without a belief in a creator, one brings into question the "inalienability," of our rights and opens the door for situational ethics and moral relativism which is the tiny thread by which the entire blanket is ultimately unraveled.
I.e., The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed (unless they're fully automatic because too many mobsters are using them, or they have a pistol grip and flash hider, or they are over .50 caliber.....etc.)
That is exactly where I am heading, but I have the luxury of having a Filipina woman. I hope she and I can be married in a few weeks. There are several other reasons for wanting to move there, that are more important than abandoning this country, but my ultimate goal is to move there. The dollar goes a long way there, and everyone speaks English, and it is a good place to live if you have some money.
Re:Your discussion with an educated,well pd professional."He saw no conflict between his advocacy of socialism and his current lifestyle."This is a good example of what i can only call a cognitive disconnect that many libs appear have in common.They advocate a godless,socialistic system,but yet they fail to see that they(of all people)have the most to lose.Reminds me of a similar conversation i recently had with a new co-worker.Mid 20's,recent coll graduate.Me-what do you think about the Minute Men and the problem with illegal immigration?Pete-What problem???Me-We've got about 10million illegals in this country and something needs to be done about it.Pete-we need a system more like Canada.
If rights are inalienable, they must also be eternal and immutable. The creator that bestows them must then, be likewise. It's inescapable.
As I said, if that makes sense to you, it's fine with me. But your conclusion is not inescapable, its arguable.
Where then, do inalienable rights come from? Who endows or grants them? What makes them inalienable? (i.e., why does the same premise apply to every human, whether or not he lives in a system that respects it?)
Its self evident to me that our rights evolved from our ability to reason, to our ability to apply the golden rule as a basis for a moral life. No 'Creator' is needed to realize that 'do onto others' is in our self interest.
Take away "Creator," from the DOI and the remainder of the premise on which this nation was founded crumbles.
Hardly. That's a hyped up opinion to me, and to millions of others who do not believe as you.
Millions of others agree with you and are free to do so. That is; however, the entire crux of my initial argument, which is when we lose site of moral absolutes, and the source from which they flow, we are undermining this nation's ideals.
I agree that there are moral absolutes, based on the reason of the 'golden rule'.
The problem is precisely THAT millions of people agree with you.
That's only a problem in YOUR mind joe.
You are free to do so, and our founders would agree that no government should pass a law which would punish or adversely affect you because of your beliefs.
Big of you to say so..
My two issues are that in this day and age, the atheist is using the force of law to impose their beliefs and that without a belief in a creator, one brings into question the "inalienability," of our rights and opens the door for situational ethics and moral relativism which is the tiny thread by which the entire blanket is ultimately unraveled.
Joe, that line may make sense to you, but please, read it again. I'm baffled as to your point.
I.e., The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed (unless they're fully automatic because too many mobsters are using them, or they have a pistol grip and flash hider, or they are over .50 caliber.....etc.)
Are you trying to say that my position on our "creator" somehow leads you to think I'm for gun prohibitions? Get real.
What victory? Our politicians are traitors, liars and idiots. We have millions upon millions of illegals coming into America every year who hate our guts while sucking us dry to pay for their needs.
You are either blind as a bat or stupid - or both. We don't want America to fall - but our politicians do. So what joy can you find in that? What victory do you see in America becoming a balkanized state? Mexicans own the West, Muslims own Ohio and Michigan, and Cubans own Florida. Wow, what a victory for the average American citizen.
I remain hopeful...but I guess only time will tell!
How about invasion and occupation by foreigners? We are being invaded daily by illegals and nothing concrete is being done to stop it. Rome was similarly invaded by colonials and barbarians and they fell. Europe is now in the same state of affairs and they are going down to oblivion. The US is next to go away as a functioning Republic.
LOL Ah, the U.S. educational system, brought to you by the NEA.
As long as America continues to suck in the best and brightest from around the globe, it will show an amazing resilence. When that stops, it is time to break out the worry beads.
Believe me, you are not alone. There are many of us who feel the same way.
I believe its too late. From the ground up, soclisiam has been ingrained. in people to think it is their right to get on the Gov. handouts. I see it all around me. Here in Ohio, Taft is raising cigerettes i.25 a pack, increasing eletric bills 30%. Why?, to give to more welfare and failed schools. Someone has to stop this, but I see no one. We little people pay the price, no one cares ,
"the US educational system,brought to you by the NEA"That's right,and the kicker is,our tax dollars pay those bloated toads teaching(indoctrinating)the next generation of Americans.Talk about adding insult to injury!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.