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To: GoLightly
If it had been the intent of the founders to fully serrate church & state, don't you think they would have addressed that in the Federal Constitution, instead of leaving that power to the states?

They did. A state cannot enact a state religion. That is a violation of separation of church and state.

Not true

That was the law in those days. It was not enforced in some of the backwoods counties, but is was enforced law in most of the colonies.

However did that happen, when most of the states had official state churches at the time of the founding?

During the Constitutional Convention of 1787 Ben Franklin suggested they start the convention with prayer. His suggestion was rejected and the convention was held without prayer. Those founders not only rejected prayer, they demanded separation of church and state.
All of the above are facts of American History that can be found in the Encyclopedia Britannica or any book on American history.

Now, I ask you this: If the founders were Christians who wanted a Christian America, why did they reject prayer at the convention? Why did the enact Separation of Church and State? Why does the Constitution not mention Jesus, or God. Why does the Declaration of Independence refer to the Deist "Nature's God" instead of the Christian Jesus God?

It takes someone with no understanding of the Christian faith

I understand the Constitution and the words of the Deists who wrote it.
...
66 posted on 06/03/2005 8:57:41 AM PDT by mugs99
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To: mugs99
A state cannot enact a state religion. That is a violation of separation of church and state.

Please provide the clause in the Constitution got rid of official state religious. After you fail to find it, check out the years that the original 13 disestablished on their own.

I'm combining this from two of your posts to make your statement clearer.In colonial times your religion was the religion of the colony you lived in. That was the law in those days. It was not enforced in some of the backwoods counties, but is was enforced law in most of the colonies.

People had to contribute tax dollars to maintain their state churches. People had to be members of good standing with the official state churches to be made freemen there. However, people did not have to worship in churches of the religion of the official church & there were churches of other denominations within most of the colonies.

Only about half of the Pilgrims were members of the church of the other half of the Pilgrims. None of them were Puritans. Puritans founded Salem & Scituate. Here you have two different religions within the same colony & neither of them were exactly in "backwoods counties". The colonists had a fit about the Royal Governor putting an Anglican church in Boston because if was offensive, not because it was "illegal".

During the Constitutional Convention of 1787 Ben Franklin suggested they start the convention with prayer. His suggestion was rejected and the convention was held without prayer.

Members of the convention were different religions, so the rejection of Franklin's suggestion makes some sense. It had nothing to do with any kind of rejection of Christianity.

Those founders not only rejected prayer, they demanded separation of church and state.

They rejected creating a national religion. That is hardly a demand for the separation of church & state.

All of the above are facts of American History that can be found in the Encyclopedia Britannica or any book on American history.

There are facts & there are interpretations of what those facts mean. If you don't believe my interpretation, keep sifting through the Constitution to find that clause which forced all of the states to disestablish.

Now, I ask you this: If the founders were Christians who wanted a Christian America, why did they reject prayer at the convention?

No prayer would have been appropriate for everyone there. In those days, most prayers weren't the watered down versions of prayer that are common today. Most of these people were heavily schooled in the doctrine of their faiths. Saying some kind of universal Christian prayer would have been akin to a Roman Catholic taking communion at a Baptist church, sure to offend everyone.

Why did the enact Separation of Church and State?

They didn't.

Why does the Constitution not mention Jesus, or God.

Religion was left to the states.

Why does the Declaration of Independence refer to the Deist "Nature's God" instead of the Christian Jesus God?

It was a good way to poke a finger in the eye of the monarch.

I understand the Constitution and the words of the Deists who wrote it.

Could you splain why Paine, clearly a deist quoted extensively from the Old Testament in "Common Sense"?

67 posted on 06/03/2005 12:03:36 PM PDT by GoLightly
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