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Creationism: God's gift to the ignorant (Religion bashing alert)
Times Online UK ^ | May 21, 2005 | Richard Dawkins

Posted on 05/25/2005 3:41:22 AM PDT by billorites

Science feeds on mystery. As my colleague Matt Ridley has put it: “Most scientists are bored by what they have already discovered. It is ignorance that drives them on.” Science mines ignorance. Mystery — that which we don’t yet know; that which we don’t yet understand — is the mother lode that scientists seek out. Mystics exult in mystery and want it to stay mysterious. Scientists exult in mystery for a very different reason: it gives them something to do.

Admissions of ignorance and mystification are vital to good science. It is therefore galling, to say the least, when enemies of science turn those constructive admissions around and abuse them for political advantage. Worse, it threatens the enterprise of science itself. This is exactly the effect that creationism or “intelligent design theory” (ID) is having, especially because its propagandists are slick, superficially plausible and, above all, well financed. ID, by the way, is not a new form of creationism. It simply is creationism disguised, for political reasons, under a new name.

It isn’t even safe for a scientist to express temporary doubt as a rhetorical device before going on to dispel it.

“To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.” You will find this sentence of Charles Darwin quoted again and again by creationists. They never quote what follows. Darwin immediately went on to confound his initial incredulity. Others have built on his foundation, and the eye is today a showpiece of the gradual, cumulative evolution of an almost perfect illusion of design. The relevant chapter of my Climbing Mount Improbable is called “The fortyfold Path to Enlightenment” in honour of the fact that, far from being difficult to evolve, the eye has evolved at least 40 times independently around the animal kingdom.

The distinguished Harvard geneticist Richard Lewontin is widely quoted as saying that organisms “appear to have been carefully and artfully designed”. Again, this was a rhetorical preliminary to explaining how the powerful illusion of design actually comes about by natural selection. The isolated quotation strips out the implied emphasis on “appear to”, leaving exactly what a simple-mindedly pious audience — in Kansas, for instance — wants to hear.

The deceitful misquoting of scientists to suit an anti-scientific agenda ranks among the many unchristian habits of fundamentalist authors. But such Telling Lies for God (the book title of the splendidly pugnacious Australian geologist Ian Plimer) is not the most serious problem. There is a more important point to be made, and it goes right to the philosophical heart of creationism.

The standard methodology of creationists is to find some phenomenon in nature which Darwinism cannot readily explain. Darwin said: “If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.” Creationists mine ignorance and uncertainty in order to abuse his challenge. “Bet you can’t tell me how the elbow joint of the lesser spotted weasel frog evolved by slow gradual degrees?” If the scientist fails to give an immediate and comprehensive answer, a default conclusion is drawn: “Right, then, the alternative theory; ‘intelligent design’ wins by default.”

Notice the biased logic: if theory A fails in some particular, theory B must be right! Notice, too, how the creationist ploy undermines the scientist’s rejoicing in uncertainty. Today’s scientist in America dare not say: “Hm, interesting point. I wonder how the weasel frog’s ancestors did evolve their elbow joint. I’ll have to go to the university library and take a look.” No, the moment a scientist said something like that the default conclusion would become a headline in a creationist pamphlet: “Weasel frog could only have been designed by God.”

I once introduced a chapter on the so-called Cambrian Explosion with the words: “It is as though the fossils were planted there without any evolutionary history.” Again, this was a rhetorical overture, intended to whet the reader’s appetite for the explanation. Inevitably, my remark was gleefully quoted out of context. Creationists adore “gaps” in the fossil record.

Many evolutionary transitions are elegantly documented by more or less continuous series of changing intermediate fossils. Some are not, and these are the famous “gaps”. Michael Shermer has wittily pointed out that if a new fossil discovery neatly bisects a “gap”, the creationist will declare that there are now two gaps! Note yet again the use of a default. If there are no fossils to document a postulated evolutionary transition, the assumption is that there was no evolutionary transition: God must have intervened.

The creationists’ fondness for “gaps” in the fossil record is a metaphor for their love of gaps in knowledge generally. Gaps, by default, are filled by God. You don’t know how the nerve impulse works? Good! You don’t understand how memories are laid down in the brain? Excellent! Is photosynthesis a bafflingly complex process? Wonderful! Please don’t go to work on the problem, just give up, and appeal to God. Dear scientist, don’t work on your mysteries. Bring us your mysteries for we can use them. Don’t squander precious ignorance by researching it away. Ignorance is God’s gift to Kansas.

Richard Dawkins, FRS, is the Charles Simonyi Professor of the Public Understanding of Science, at Oxford University. His latest book is The Ancestor’s Tale


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: biblethumpers; cary; creation; crevolist; dawkins; evolution; excellentessay; funnyresponses; hahahahahahaha; liberalgarbage; phenryjerkalert; smegheads
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To: bluepistolero
11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, F36 with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

His own body.

1,661 posted on 05/28/2005 1:55:37 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: xzins

Yes, but isn't it a fact, that the bigger they grow, the more likely they are to collapse? Where have all the churches, so swelled with members, in the 1950's gone? Where are these mega-churches of today, headed for? They will break up and disappear, or some sects will remain. Corruption seems to be built in to them. And if that is so, then they must not have been founded on the true rock.


1,662 posted on 05/28/2005 1:56:24 PM PDT by bluepistolero
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To: xzins

Truly not defeated, but does that mean they have to have a member still living on the earth? I think they're all waiting in heaven now.


1,663 posted on 05/28/2005 1:56:41 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (No wonder the Southern Baptist Church threw Greer out: Only one god per church! [Ann Coulter])
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To: xzins
the greater and more perfect tabernacle

Well, yes, Christ is greater and more perfect, yet we are one as well, especially if he indwells.

1,664 posted on 05/28/2005 1:58:56 PM PDT by bluepistolero
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To: bluepistolero

You raise an interesting subject that I've pondered, and again it centers on the type-churches in Revelation. One wonders if in addition to being types, if they also might be stages of a church....possible routes they might take??

Which ties into your concern that the flourishing bodies of yesteryear have seemed to collapse in our day, and that the flourishing of today might well repeat that process.....those stages.


1,665 posted on 05/28/2005 2:00:10 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: PatrickHenry; AntiGuv; AndrewC; HiTech RedNeck; betty boop; xzins
I’m baaack! Jeepers, y’all have been busy…

The original definition from the discover.org website:

Intelligent Design holds that ” certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.”

My last definition (#1546):

Intelligent Design: An hypothesis wherein certain features of life v non-life/death in nature is best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

The latest from AntiGuv and PatrickHenry:

The Intelligent Design Hypothesis: Certain biological features or processes that are otherwise inexplicable may be explained by an intelligent cause, rather than by an undirected process such as natural selection. .

AndrewC, your objection at 1558 is very important. You said:

Just so stories about undirected processes can explain anything, just not plausibly

What has been omitted in our redefinitions is the word “best”. In other words, many explanations may be offered but all explanations are not equally plausible. The intelligent design hypothesis claims the “best” explanation for certain features.

HiTechRedNeck, I am assured that the use of the word “given” as a substitute for “certain” does not limit the intelligent design hypothesis to current knowledge and conversely would require mention of at least some for any particular assertion of the intelligent design hypothesis.

PatrickHenry and AntiGuv, I’m going to fast forward through your discussion to your last suggested rewording:

The Intelligent Design Hypothesis: Certain biological features or processes that are otherwise inexplicable may be explained by an intelligent cause, rather than by an undirected process such as natural selection. .

I like the word “certain” but object to the phrase “biological features or processes” because we need to make a “cut” between life and non-life/death.

Considerations such as form, geometry, mathematical structures, semiosis, autonomy, successful communication, complexity and intelligence are within the domain of intelligent design investigation – and the reference to “biological features or processes” might inadvertently limit the debate to bio/chemistry.

The omission of the word “best” in this discussion in combination with the phrase “that are otherwise inexplicable” puts the bar above that which is stated by the fellows at discovery.org. IOW, they are not claiming that there are not other explanations, but that the best explanation is by an intelligent cause. I think your last wording was getting much closer, PatrickHenry!

I suggest amending and revising your last definition as follows:

Intelligent Design Hypothesis: Certain features of life v non-life may be best explained by an intelligent cause, rather than by an undirected process.

I omitted my original “/death in nature” and “such as natural selection” as unnecessary verbiage.

1,666 posted on 05/28/2005 2:01:32 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: HiTech RedNeck

see my #1665 for possible ways to view...in addition to your perspective which also has merit. Thanks.


1,667 posted on 05/28/2005 2:01:55 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: bluepistolero

Like many terms in the bible there is room for multiple meanings of church. Body of believers. Gathering of Christians and non-Christians that either aren't evident or who are openly inquiring into the gospel. Many are called but not chosen. Called out = ekklesia. It might even be possible to escape the pollution of the world by knowing Jesus then get entangled again (wiser souls than I can debate whether that's an 'ypothetical).


1,668 posted on 05/28/2005 2:02:07 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (No wonder the Southern Baptist Church threw Greer out: Only one god per church! [Ann Coulter])
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To: xzins

Well, the letters to the churches in the book of revelation, is relevant today, for all the churches are the same, no matter where in time they exist. If the lamp is taken away from them, it is because they deserve it. The virgins who trim their lamps are advised to be somewhere else.


1,669 posted on 05/28/2005 2:03:32 PM PDT by bluepistolero
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To: Alamo-Girl; AntiGuv; AndrewC; HiTech RedNeck

I'm not trying to wrench up the defining, but have you all previously agreed to what is meant by "intelligent." If so, can you ping me to it? Thanks.


1,670 posted on 05/28/2005 2:05:04 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Yes, Jesus speaks of that somewhere, sweeping out the house of demons, then they come back and are worse than before.


1,671 posted on 05/28/2005 2:05:42 PM PDT by bluepistolero
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To: bluepistolero

And somehow, the virgins who have no oil are excluded. A caution worth listening to.


1,672 posted on 05/28/2005 2:07:08 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: Alamo-Girl

I perceive two visions here about what Science is expected to do. One surveys the scene at each point in its inquiry and tries to make the most likely judgment about what's the case (to date, it's that I won't win the Powerball, unless I get a friend on the ball drawing team), the other takes an 'ypothesis and drills down to the bitter end before starting up with another (keep buying those Powerball tickets, I have an unbustable budget, and we'll see if I ever win before I die).


1,673 posted on 05/28/2005 2:09:42 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (No wonder the Southern Baptist Church threw Greer out: Only one god per church! [Ann Coulter])
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To: xzins; AntiGuv; PatrickHenry
Thank you so much for your reply!

I'm not trying to wrench up the defining, but have you all previously agreed to what is meant by "intelligent." If so, can you ping me to it? Thanks.

Most certainly I will ping you!

And yes, I expect we will need to define all the component concepts as well: intelligence, causation, life v non-life, undirected process.

1,674 posted on 05/28/2005 2:11:22 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: xzins
LOLOL! I forgot to mention that we have not yet defined intelligence.
1,675 posted on 05/28/2005 2:12:35 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: HiTech RedNeck
The central Roman Church does believe it encompasses the western Roman Catholic world. Some western Roman Catholics disagree... well they aren't Roman Catholics at core if they do.

According to the Inquisition.

Someone has to win this tug of war over the definition of what a Roman Catholic is, and if push came to shove the smart money would be on Rome. They're an authoritarian, highly hierarchical church, and have been so ever since mixing up with the Roman emperor for the first time. Surprise. not

The catholic church has also spewed out dissident sects to become other religions a fair number of times. I'm not going to be overly surpised if the next half-century sees this happening again.

1,676 posted on 05/28/2005 2:12:59 PM PDT by donh
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To: xzins

The analogy goes so far, and then we can see no more. Were the unwatchful virgins called upon later for some other reason? The story doesn't go past the big event of the coming of the bridegroom, who states he never knew them. Wiser souls than I can debate such details. I know I would not want to miss the second coming even if other chances follow.


1,677 posted on 05/28/2005 2:13:49 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (No wonder the Southern Baptist Church threw Greer out: Only one god per church! [Ann Coulter])
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To: Alamo-Girl; AntiGuv
The omission of the word “best” in this discussion in combination with the phrase “that are otherwise inexplicable” puts the bar above that which is stated by the fellows at discovery.org. IOW, they are not claiming that there are not other explanations, but that the best explanation is by an intelligent cause. I think your last wording was getting much closer, PatrickHenry!

My idea in using the expression "features or processes that are otherwise inexplicable" seems (at least to me) to cover the issue of "best." If there's no natural explanation, then the ID hypothesis is the only explanation that's left to explore.

If we do what the Discovery Institute does, and phrase it so that although there may be natural causes, the ID explanation is (somehow) judged to be "best," then we may as well amend all scientific theories to say: "... but to some, ID is preferable." I regard that as a giant step backwards.

1,678 posted on 05/28/2005 2:15:12 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. The List-O-Links is at my homepage.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck; betty boop
LOLOL! What a precious metaphor, HiTechRedneck. Thank you!

The historical changes of how we "do" science is a fascinating subject sometimes visited by betty boop on these threads. I'm hoping she'll add some of her wisdom here.

IMHO, the emphasis on scientific materialism has caused tunnel vision in the United States as compared to former Soviet countries and Asia.

1,679 posted on 05/28/2005 2:17:13 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: HiTech RedNeck

I have heard that the entry of the wise virgins might only temporarily exclude the unwise. Others see the unwise as not possessed of a true faith; therefore, not really Christian to begin with.


1,680 posted on 05/28/2005 2:18:28 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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