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GOP Aides Say New Patriot Act Obliges Bush
Yahoo News ^ | 5/18/05 | MARK SHERMAN/AP

Posted on 05/18/2005 5:58:44 PM PDT by wagglebee

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letting the FBI subpoena records without permission from a judge or grand jury.

IMHO, this is clearly unconstitutional.

1 posted on 05/18/2005 5:58:44 PM PDT by wagglebee
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To: wagglebee
IMHO, this is clearly unconstitutional.

Agreed. If they need the subpoena in a hurry, they can call the judge at night and get him out of bed and make their case.

2 posted on 05/18/2005 6:08:21 PM PDT by Numbers Guy
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To: wagglebee

I don't think extending IRS powers to the FBI is a good idea, unless they are sunsetted.


3 posted on 05/18/2005 6:11:41 PM PDT by crazyhorse691 (We won. We don't need to be forgiving. Let the heads roll!!!!!!!!!)
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To: wagglebee

"or other evidence in terrorism investigations"

Oh. Are they going to rewrite the law to actually be limited to terrorism investigations, or are they just going to pretend it is so limited like they did the first time?

"Recipients could challenge the subpoenas in court and the Bush administration would have to report to Congress twice a year exactly how it was using this investigatory power, the aides said."

Oh, make a "report." I feel safe with that.

< /sarcasm>


4 posted on 05/18/2005 6:12:11 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: wagglebee
IMHO, this is clearly unconstitutional.

Agreed. Yet another reason no viable political party has my vote at the moment.

5 posted on 05/18/2005 6:17:10 PM PDT by steve86
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To: Numbers Guy
Agreed. If they need the subpoena in a hurry, they can call the judge at night and get him out of bed and make their case.

This is like with the wiretaps. Any time, day or night, a judge is available to sign-off on anything as long as it is legitimate. When powers like this are granted, it would seem that the real reason is to execute subpoenas and other warrents that the government doesn't believe they would be able to convince a judge was valid.

6 posted on 05/18/2005 6:23:34 PM PDT by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: BearWash

When you read this stuff, keep it all in perspective. Remember:

The "Security Check" at the airport is for your safety, to make sure no terrorists get on, it is not an unreasonable search and siezure.

It may be hard to remember this when you are arrested for some form of contraband. Rock stars' dope comes to mind. Marijuana is clearly the weapon of choice for terrorist hijackers.

Remember "DUI" checkpoints are a special case to check for drunk drivers. They are not unreasonable search and siezure. It may be hard to remember this when you get arrested for not remembering your driver's license. You are a special case, too.

This is another case of a government trying to expand its span of control using the "Safety" cover.

"Those who would sacrifice lliberty for safety will soon have neither."
- Benjamin Franklin


7 posted on 05/18/2005 6:26:23 PM PDT by Rodentking (http://www.airpower.blogspot.com/)
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To: wagglebee
expand government powers in the name of fighting terrorism

Oh goody, I can't wait. I'm sure we'll be confiscating a lot more Whizzinators at the airport in the name of national security.

8 posted on 05/18/2005 6:27:01 PM PDT by ElkGroveDan
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To: BearWash
MHO, this is clearly unconstitutional.

Agreed. Yet another reason no viable political party has my vote at the moment.

Agreed.

9 posted on 05/18/2005 6:45:09 PM PDT by Dubya (Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,but by me)
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To: wagglebee
...But the measure being written by Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., would give the FBI new power to issue administrative subpoenas, which are not reviewed by a judge or grand jury, for quickly obtaining records, electronic data ...

The Fourth Amendment:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

10 posted on 05/18/2005 6:46:55 PM PDT by FReepaholic (When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading)
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To: wagglebee

For some reason, I'm a little skeptical of more "anonymous" sources, and will wait to see.

I wonder how many papers will print a story like this right next to the Star Wars reviews tomorrow? Mine will.


11 posted on 05/18/2005 6:47:52 PM PDT by soloNYer (Albany Slimes Union: trying to get to the left of their heroes the New York Slimes)
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To: soloNYer

Is anyone surprised by this? Taking away our liberties in the name of national security. I do have a question. The government may "protect" us from acts of terror by terrorist but who protects us from acts of terror from our government?


12 posted on 05/18/2005 6:54:37 PM PDT by libertarianben (Looking for sanity and his hard to find cousin common sense)
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To: wagglebee

HELL NO!


13 posted on 05/18/2005 6:55:21 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan (Fire Stabenow in 2006)
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To: Rodentking

I was about to flame, until I caught the sarcasm.


14 posted on 05/18/2005 6:56:36 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan (Fire Stabenow in 2006)
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To: Dan from Michigan
HELL NO!

Are you saying that it should or shouldn't be allowed?

15 posted on 05/18/2005 7:03:58 PM PDT by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee
The Patriot Act needs to go the way of the Ugly Gun ban.

It needs to be as dead as Saddam's kids.

16 posted on 05/18/2005 7:09:01 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan (Fire Stabenow in 2006)
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To: wagglebee

bump


17 posted on 05/18/2005 7:09:21 PM PDT by ellery (The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedience, and by parts. - Edmund Burke)
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To: Rodentking

I'm not going to advocate the sacrificing of any liberties...BUT...I think it's clear we WON'T have safety if we chose to keep the liberties.

A case of "cake and eatin' it"

We've come to the point where we have to chose which is more valuable - and not go weak in the knees when the loss of safety costs us a loved one.


That said, a point of order: since the 4th does not specifically say a warrent "issued by a judge"...is that not a constitutional loophole whereby the Feds can argue that they have not violated the Constitution when the use "administrative warrents"?

I'm not defending the practice, but it seems to me the language is not airtight to call it unconstitutional.

Oh, and BTW, IMO much of this results directly from the fact that our courts have become so infested with touchy-feely liberals that the law man doesn't feel he can get a fair shot at the bad guys from the judges.

If our judges had their heads on straight, a lot fewer folks in the law-enforcement community would be behind these laws.


18 posted on 05/18/2005 7:10:15 PM PDT by WillRain ("Might have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.")
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To: Dan from Michigan

All we really need to do is secure the borders and allow law enforcement to employ profiling.


19 posted on 05/18/2005 7:10:37 PM PDT by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: libertarianben
I'm questioning the report until the bill is introduced. I was just struck by the aides who seemed to hold a press conference while still remaining anonymous...and the juxtaposition of this story with the release of Star Wars which will be all over the papers, giving editors the ability to continue to draw parallels to the Emperor who expands the power of the government by using war and fear as a cover.

This just seems so perfect, like having so many years-old Tom Delay bashing stories on the same day (Wash Post/NYT).
20 posted on 05/18/2005 7:19:14 PM PDT by soloNYer (Albany Slimes Union: trying to get to the left of their heroes the New York Slimes)
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